Roger Castillo – Satsang – One of the most important keys

 

00:07
and this morning I wanted to talk about
00:10
something I was speaking with some
00:13
people and breakfast about which is a
00:17
little different from the general
00:19
framework so I guess now I make a
00:22
distinction between the general
00:25
framework which talks about peace of
00:29
mind which is what we’re really looking
00:30
for or we can call it happiness for the
00:32
human being
00:33
talks about suffering in its different
00:36
forms and basically the underlying
00:39
belief of suffering a belief in
00:45
attachment to outcome and do a show and
00:51
as it as we speak about that framework
00:55
what tends to happen is so we talk about
00:59
in that framework how we are designed by
01:03
life to act in each moment exactly the
01:06
way we act that the way we act is not
01:10
optional it is a reaction based on who
01:15
we are in that moment and who we are in
01:17
that moment includes a biological and
01:20
our psychological makeup and so what
01:23
happens in each moment includes both the
01:25
biological reactions which are part of
01:27
the flow of life and also the
01:29
attitudinal reactions generally speaking
01:33
that is considered to be me who I am
01:38
so those reactions based on the
01:41
programming of the body are often
01:43
related to as my doing and within the
01:52
context of suggesting that life is a
01:54
creation unfolding exactly as its
01:58
created to unfold a predetermined story
02:02
creation or an experience arising in
02:05
consciousness that is unfolding
02:06
according to
02:10
gripped we could say meaning the
02:12
storyline meaning the experience as the
02:15
experience is designed to be a
02:16
masterpiece so within the context of
02:21
that setting or that suggestion we might
02:26
be able to start to see that what I
02:28
thought was my doing is actually always
02:31
a happening and as we find ourselves
02:36
living life with life happening it
02:42
doesn’t mean that suddenly the body is
02:45
going to stop moving it’s not destined
02:47
for the body to stop moving in this
02:50
story of life as life continues to
02:55
happen
02:56
the conditioning in the body the new
03:00
conditioning that is the conditioning
03:04
delivered through the teaching and
03:06
through whatever other experiences you
03:09
have in life and through other teachings
03:11
that conditioning hopefully we’ll start
03:14
to see that life is happening and not
03:18
our doing and so that very much is not
03:22
something that anyone does awareness
03:27
just lands on the movement that the
03:31
happening and sees it as a happening and
03:35
it sees it that way it’s not it’s not
03:38
just awareness it’s actually the working
03:39
mind when a thought arises and says wow
03:42
I just turned around because of a sound
03:46
that inspired the turning around
03:48
automatically based on my genes enough
03:50
to date conditioning and in that moment
03:53
it can be seen more deeply than it might
03:56
have been seen any time before it makes
03:59
sense that that will happen that’s just
04:01
how the deepening of the understanding
04:04
happens as it’s seen very naturally
04:07
spontaneously without anyone forcing it
04:10
when it’s seen in daily life now in my
04:17
experience the process was also
04:20
in a way much more full and complex than
04:25
just that there are a lot of other
04:27
contemplations that happened within that
04:33
framework contemplations about various
04:37
aspects of life and so i’d like to be
04:40
able to start speaking about these sort
04:45
of society contemplations that
04:46
contributed so much to seeing life a
04:50
particular way and whenever we see these
04:56
we have these realizations around sort
05:00
of side topics that get complete content
05:02
plated will find that they fit into the
05:05
framework they support the framework
05:07
they flesh out the framework and so
05:11
probably the one that is the most
05:14
significant that I can tell the most
05:18
significant shift that happened came
05:23
after a period of discerning between the
05:30
relative and the absolute so this
05:34
started off as a concept that there is a
05:39
difference between that it which is real
05:42
and that which is unreal
05:46
this was presented in many different
05:50
ways in various spiritual wisdom texts
05:56
so for example the notion that the
05:59
universe is an illusion that it is not
06:02
real so you know there’s the this
06:07
concept of real and unreal comes in and
06:10
so a thinking starts to happen around a
06:15
theme that’s that seems to be
06:18
predominant at a particular point in
06:20
time
06:21
and when this theme came in the theme of
06:25
real versus unreal absolute versus
06:30
relative
06:32
a lot of bits of the puzzle started
06:34
being delivered so even our
06:37
contemplation that is a happening
06:39
according to our genes and
06:41
up-to-date-conditioning at that point in
06:43
time so the fact that this notion of
06:46
real and unreal started coming in
06:48
becomes part of my
06:48
up-to-date-conditioning so it’s new
06:50
conditioning that can alter my
06:53
up-to-date-conditioning contemplating
06:55
started happening along those lines and
06:57
the contemplation was created insights
07:00
and conclusions and those insights and
07:04
conclusions effectively become new
07:06
conditioning that adjusts the
07:10
up-to-date-conditioning so each time we
07:12
get something like a thought or a
07:14
conclusion or we go wow that that’s what
07:18
that saying that I’ve heard so often
07:20
refers to and when two things come
07:25
together they understand understanding
07:28
deepens so even the intellectual
07:30
understanding that deepening of the
07:32
intellectual understanding is new
07:33
conditioning and then our
07:35
up-to-date-conditioning changes and the
07:38
process goes on so the the topic of real
07:43
versus unreal or absolute versus
07:47
relative so it starts to get fleshed out
07:49
so I reiterate this topic was one topic
07:53
which I guess underlies a lot of how
08:01
life is related to down the track how
08:05
life is related to from a place of peace
08:09
to the extent that the relative is taken
08:14
to be real the relationship to it is out
08:21
of line to what we find the relationship
08:25
is when an adjustment that that happens
08:28
and the relationship that’s there when
08:30
the relative is taken to be real is a
08:33
relationship that does create resistance
08:36
and it’s a relationship that sees life
08:40
not clearly
08:44
so this was one of the key concepts that
08:49
popped up that which is real doesn’t
08:52
change and when I read it it came while
09:00
I was contemplating this real and unreal
09:03
and that which is real doesn’t change
09:06
and so that sort of became my benchmark
09:09
now this this concept that which is real
09:16
doesn’t change is not useful for a
09:24
definition of real in ordinary everyday
09:27
life but when it comes to a deep
09:29
spiritual investigation below the
09:32
surface then we don’t want to have a
09:35
definition of real that applies to
09:38
making a cake when you’re making a cake
09:41
the flour is real and the oven is real
09:46
and the heat is real and the taste is
09:48
real so we don’t go around saying you
09:53
know the eggs are not real and cracking
09:55
eggs and I mean in practical terms
09:57
they’re real but when we’re doing a deep
09:59
investigation maybe we need a different
10:02
definition of real you know in quantum
10:05
physics you probably have a different
10:07
definition of real to the definition of
10:10
real when you’re working in the kitchen
10:12
that which is real doesn’t change it
10:17
came came in in such a form that I
10:21
trusted and it came in such a form that
10:25
had an authority behind it and I’ll put
10:29
it forward as being a concept that I
10:33
feel you can run with for this
10:37
investigation so that gave me a basis on
10:44
which to start categorizing the real
10:47
versus the unreal then
10:52
at this point the word you know absolute
10:55
and relative were also in the mix they
10:59
were very important very significant or
11:03
related to this topic of real and unreal
11:06
relative and absolute absolute sort of
11:10
means no no space for any other way
11:17
absolute means no scope for it being
11:23
wrong let’s say or for it changing and I
11:28
noticed in language so in this period I
11:31
noticed that I happen to be using and at
11:34
the time maybe it still happens I’m not
11:37
paying attention
11:38
people use the word absolutely
11:40
everywhere just throwing it out
11:42
absolutely so what did what do you think
11:45
of the new policy I absolutely agree
11:48
with it what are you going to be there
11:52
on Friday night absolutely yeah and I
11:57
started realizing I use words in a bad
12:01
way sometimes use the word absolutely
12:05
for something that can’t be absolute and
12:10
so even this is what I mean this is the
12:13
sort of process that happens on this
12:18
level where we start looking at certain
12:21
behaviors and relative to a topic that
12:23
we’re looking at and then there’s the
12:28
same sort of words like certainly
12:31
certainty and absoluteness they sort of
12:35
go together so you know are you going to
12:40
be there certainly no it’s not certain
12:43
you know something might come up that
12:46
physically presents you’ve prevents you
12:48
from being there so in my mind I started
12:51
changing the words I used to okay no
12:59
maybe possibly could be
13:04
that means I started looking at
13:08
situations more accurately I suppose I
13:11
mean it meant that I started seeing
13:13
things as they were and using language
13:17
that started to reaffirm this in my mind
13:21
so having said this now I can use
13:23
absolutely again in in the wrong context
13:26
I tend not to but sometimes in
13:29
conversation we don’t have to use
13:32
language that absolutely fits in with
13:38
the reality of things we can put in
13:42
dualistic words and we know what context
13:46
they’re used in and so we don’t have to
13:48
pick someone pick fault someone for
13:52
using the word absolutely we know what
13:54
they mean but at some point in the
13:57
process I started correcting it for
14:00
myself because it made me start seeing
14:03
things more clearly and as I looked I
14:14
started seeing everything in the
14:16
manifestation well a lot of things most
14:20
things nearly everything I came across
14:23
changes and this investigation fit in
14:30
with the notion that what I am looking
14:32
for is truth what was described to me is
14:39
that the human condition is and life is
14:43
an illusion not truth a mistake a
14:46
misunderstanding so in Buddhism you have
14:48
understanding for wisdom understanding
14:51
with a capital u and then
14:53
misunderstanding or ignorance for the
14:57
mistake they’re not seeing the truth so
15:02
it became clear this search is a search
15:06
for truth or the absolute and it’s the
15:12
search for the truth is the movement
15:14
away from misunderstanding or ignorance
15:17
and so I just want to know the truth
15:22
which means I want to see the relative
15:25
as relative and I want to know the
15:28
absolute is absolute if there is such a
15:30
thing I don’t want to relate to the
15:34
relative as absolute that’s a mistake
15:37
I’m looking for truth now truth when we
15:41
look at the word truth it is very highly
15:46
related with that which doesn’t change
15:50
the truth is the truth is the truth if a
15:55
jury or an investigator questions the
16:00
truth they won’t find a fault in it they
16:05
won’t find that it changes because it’s
16:08
the truth
16:09
if someone investigates a lie you find
16:15
it’s always changing it’s not the truth
16:20
and so understanding I’m just looking
16:26
for the truth means I’m looking for that
16:28
which doesn’t change that which is
16:30
always the same so I want to see that
16:35
which is relative I want to understand
16:38
it as relative now this doesn’t mean
16:40
that the relative is bad what’s bad is
16:44
when when I say bad what’s unfortunate
16:47
is when I don’t see the relative is
16:49
relative the ignorance is not the
16:53
relative itself but not seeing the
16:56
relative is relative so what do I mean
17:00
by relative relative simply is a word
17:04
for that which changes its it’s in a
17:09
context something that is in a context
17:12
to other things it is but only relative
17:15
to other things
17:17
so it’s relative its this is the context
17:23
in them in which I’m using the word so
17:25
it’s there one minute but it’s not there
17:28
when other things change so a ball is
17:34
big relative to a small ball and that
17:41
big ball relative to a bigger ball is
17:44
now a small ball so it’s not absolutely
17:51
a big ball and that’s one use of the
17:55
word relative and the other is something
17:57
just simply that changes so I started
18:00
looking at thoughts and I see thoughts
18:03
change thoughts come they were there
18:10
they come so there’s a change and then
18:13
when they’re there they subside so
18:16
they’re changing and we can have a
18:18
thought or a belief even we look at
18:20
beliefs beliefs is subject to change at
18:23
any point in time no we can believe that
18:26
a certain political parties absolutely
18:31
the best I’ll never vote for any other
18:35
party twenty years later the party has
18:39
changed radically and we find that no
18:41
I’m not you know I’m changing my
18:43
preference I’m not voting for another
18:45
party so our belief is subject to change
18:51
now we believe all sorts of things we
18:54
believe in Santa Santa Claus until we
18:57
don’t we believe the earth is flat until
19:05
we don’t we believe the earth is round
19:12
until we don’t and the thing with
19:15
beliefs is that we don’t realize that
19:17
they’re there we are
19:20
very great at moving from one belief to
19:23
another belief so the idea that the
19:25
world is round
19:27
is as relative as the idea that humanity
19:32
had several hundred years several
19:34
hundred years ago that said the earth is
19:37
flat so relative to the information that
19:40
was available at the time it made sense
19:43
to have the concept that the earth is
19:46
flat and people related to it as the
19:49
only option
19:50
because the perception the observation
19:55
which is a relative thing so in this
20:00
context relative perception means if
20:03
perception is relative it means it’s not
20:05
absolute perception now if you’re
20:08
looking through eyes that are not 20/20
20:13
you have fuzzy vision and so the
20:17
instrument is a relative instrument and
20:20
if someone’s eyes are what we call 20/20
20:22
the perception is different to someone
20:26
who has poor eyesight and then we might
20:30
think all 20/20 is absolute vision it’s
20:32
not at all I mean you put lenses on top
20:35
of the lenses that are already here and
20:37
we can see you know magnify and further
20:41
distance and probably you know x-ray
20:45
vision
20:46
so perception is always relative it
20:50
becomes very clear that hearing what we
20:53
hear is dependent on the instrument if
20:56
we had the sort of hearing that animals
20:59
have would hear a much greater range of
21:02
frequencies or different frequencies so
21:10
whatever we conclude about life is
21:14
relative it’s not absolute it’s a
21:18
conclusion based on perception which is
21:23
relative it’s a conclusion based on
21:25
information that we’ve received from
21:28
society or from our own perception so
21:33
it’s relative limited
21:37
and furthermore this is an important
21:39
part in the mix it’s processed by a
21:42
brain that is relative so the brain is
21:49
limited in what it can output even a
21:53
genius has a brain that is relatively
21:57
let’s say more capable at producing
21:59
certain hmm outputs then someone who’s
22:04
not a genius
22:05
but that’s no different from someone who
22:08
has what we call 20/20 vision versus
22:11
someone who has blurred vision it’s not
22:13
at all absolutely the most and that that
22:17
could be so if we come to see that our
22:29
beliefs are based on relative
22:33
information we might start to see how we
22:39
turn concepts so the earth is flat the
22:45
earth is round there are concepts how we
22:50
turn them into truth for a while while
22:52
they’re there we assume this is this is
22:55
how it is it’s true but the earth is
22:59
flat in the earth is round is a great
23:00
example of this you know no one on earth
23:05
considered the earth not to be flat
23:08
until a certain point
23:10
Copernicus I think started observing
23:14
certain things he was an astral
23:18
astrologer I think and a physicist
23:21
started observing now there’s new
23:25
information coming in and the belief is
23:30
seen to be maybe inaccurate which means
23:33
it’s not absolute so then he presented
23:37
this to the world and the world felt
23:41
challenged because it was a challenge to
23:45
their belief system and a belief system
23:47
when we take it to be
23:50
absolute we say this is true essentially
23:55
we believe I am true I am real and
23:59
therefore this is part of who I am it’s
24:04
part of my image my self-image it’s
24:09
actually part of the false self image
24:11
the self image that is a made up of
24:13
beliefs and so when this is thrown out
24:17
into the world this new idea it’s an
24:20
attack on who we believe ourselves to be
24:23
it’s an attack on what we see is real
24:27
and so there is resistance and defense
24:32
against it until such time as enough
24:37
people start seeing it so there are some
24:41
people that tend to be more open than
24:44
others in relation to their beliefs they
24:47
realized that changing a concept
24:50
changing isn’t an attack on Who I am
24:52
actually I want to see life as it is
24:54
so this introduction of the idea
24:59
inspired some people to think about it
25:02
to consider it to be open they didn’t
25:05
feel the fear that would be felt if we
25:09
have this strong idea of who I owe
25:11
because the thing is what if it’s round
25:15
who would I be what would this mean to
25:19
me what would it mean about the world
25:21
maybe all the buildings will start
25:23
falling off the earth if I believe that
25:25
the earth is round so it’s safer to
25:28
believe the earth is flat we actually
25:30
think that our belief of something is is
25:34
affecting what is if I suddenly believe
25:38
that the earth is round the houses will
25:40
start falling off so don’t tell me the
25:44
earth is round
25:45
the strange thing is the earth if it is
25:50
round and I don’t at all believe that it
25:53
is wrong I don’t believe it isn’t round
25:54
if the earth is round it always was
25:59
round even when that how
26:02
standing upright so our belief about it
26:05
being flat doesn’t keep the houses
26:07
standing upright it’s the fact that the
26:09
houses can stay upright even if the
26:11
earth is round but our belief doesn’t
26:14
allow us to see that what is is so we
26:20
take the notion of doer ship as a belief
26:23
I believe under the doer and then
26:30
concept comes in and says question this
26:35
belief of doer ship it’s what causes all
26:39
the problems you are so the concepts is
26:44
you are not the doer everything is a
26:48
happening and the belief system says no
26:54
no I can’t see life this way because if
26:58
I do then there will be chaos everything
27:05
will change what it’s saying is there
27:07
never has been a doer life has always
27:11
been a happening and life being a
27:15
happening which has always been the case
27:18
isn’t going to change just because we
27:20
see life from a new perspective of Nandu
27:26
oh sure it’s always been like that this
27:31
is just saying see it as it is and
27:33
inside there’s a resistance that says no
27:36
I don’t I don’t want to see this because
27:38
what will that mean what will happen if
27:41
I see this in this case what will happen
27:44
is the world will continue to function
27:45
the way it is and they’ll be in a peace
27:49
but anyway that’s well it’s not really
27:53
off topic but it’s going down a pathway
27:56
that we don’t need to go down right now
27:59
and we’re talking about in broad terms
28:01
the difference between the real and the
28:04
absolute and how important it is to see
28:08
that thoughts descend perception
28:13
which are the basis of our belief
28:17
systems a relative and therefore our
28:20
beliefs are relative and to see that
28:24
when we turn were actually our beliefs
28:28
aren’t relative the concept at the base
28:32
of the belief is relative so let’s
28:37
define what a belief is a belief is a
28:39
concept that has been related to as
28:43
absolute so the earth is flat that’s a
28:49
concept the earth is round that’s a
28:51
concept it becomes a belief because so
28:56
let’s take the concept the earth is flat
28:58
I actually will run with that concept in
29:04
practical terms the earth is flat take
29:09
the concept the earth is round I could
29:11
accept that in physical terms
29:14
it’s quite possible and probable based
29:19
on what has the observations that have
29:22
been made that the earth is round I also
29:25
know that it’s just a concept because
29:28
based on the possibility that time and
29:32
space are not as linear as we think then
29:36
the earth is neither flat nor round but
29:42
something else an illusion so there’s
29:48
there all concepts and concepts are very
29:50
useful we need concepts in order to
29:52
function in life so the concept of
29:58
certain rules of physics allow us to
30:02
build houses that don’t fall down build
30:06
bridges that don’t fall down when there
30:09
are earthquakes so concepts are very
30:11
useful if we turn them into truths which
30:15
they can never be they become beliefs
30:17
and beliefs are limiting because we’ll
30:20
defend them
30:22
and we won’t be open to seeing things
30:24
from a different perspective so we can
30:28
hold concepts if a concept is turned
30:32
into a belief then it becomes something
30:35
it can never be a concept can never be
30:38
absolute
30:52
so we could say the concept that is
30:56
personalized is a belief you can have
31:03
some personal concepts like I like
31:11
cappuccino um it’s a concept because in
31:19
a year’s time you might not and it’s a
31:22
concept that accurately reflects the
31:24
situation so if someone tells you today
31:27
oh I’d like to make you a great
31:29
breakfast what do you like you put
31:33
forward the concept I like toast and
31:36
cappuccino and it’s personal it’s about
31:41
me but if we hold it as an absolute
31:46
truth a belief we’re holding it
31:50
incorrectly because we might find that
31:51
in a year’s time or ten years ago we
31:54
didn’t like cappuccino now someone would
31:56
say so what’s the problem if I hold I
31:59
like cappuccino as a belief and I don’t
32:01
like cappuccino in a year’s time then I
32:04
just won’t have it in a year’s time then
32:08
you won’t hold the belief I like
32:10
cappuccino if you stop liking it and so
32:14
what is significant is to see today that
32:19
I can still put forward the concept I
32:22
like cappuccino but there’s a whole lot
32:25
of providers that go with it which we
32:27
don’t have to you know we don’t have to
32:29
say well I like cappuccino but I want
32:32
you to know that this is not a belief
32:33
this is a concept and that in a year’s
32:36
time I might not like capture actually a
32:38
year three years ago I didn’t like
32:39
cappuccino so I don’t want you to you
32:44
know think this is my belief if that’s
32:49
not the point but if we start to see it
32:51
that way internally then when we say
32:56
something we now have a particular
32:58
relationship to what we’re saying
33:00
and the funny thing is that if we
33:06
believe that we like cappuccino if we
33:10
believe it as a truth not just as a
33:13
concept it becomes part of who I am and
33:17
from that place if cappuccino isn’t
33:21
available
33:21
I actually feel attacked because I don’t
33:25
have it’s not being delivered what what
33:29
is part of what makes me complete is not
33:32
being delivered
33:34
so this loosening is coming to see
33:38
concepts as concepts and not as truth is
33:41
very significant so when if you reef
33:45
restate what you said because the word
33:49
personal you might have been using in a
33:51
different context yes like to say so if
33:58
we think concept is part of who we are
34:02
in its belief and and the test the
34:09
indicator is if we feel attacked
34:12
if someone challenged our beliefs or
34:17
someone said and the earth is flat and
34:19
we go completely mad if it really
34:22
matters so much that is a question of
34:25
our being yes I agree so to the extent
34:32
we believe something whether we
34:36
recognize it or not the suggestion here
34:39
is that to believe something is for it
34:42
to form part of our self-image and we
34:45
will defend that we’ll have to defend it
34:47
so when you say if a concept is taken
34:52
personally it becomes a belief yes
34:56
that’s this is true now this this topic
35:01
of concepts and belief relative and
35:05
absolute I don’t know if you remember at
35:09
the beginning I said this is probably
35:10
the most important
35:14
topic that I contemplated and the
35:22
insights that came meant that the world
35:27
started to be seen radically differently
35:32
perception is relative all I ever know
35:36
of the world is perception the images
35:42
that arise in each moment my perception
35:47
through the senses so perception is
35:52
relative in an instant I mean it didn’t
36:00
happen in an instant but maybe you know
36:02
if we get a condensed explanation of
36:05
this it could all fall into place very
36:07
quickly in an instant what I believed
36:10
was absolute what I believe the world I
36:15
was relating to it as it’s as though
36:17
it’s absolute in an instant it’s like oh
36:21
all the perceptive part of it is
36:23
relative not absolute and my thoughts
36:31
about the world firstly my thoughts are
36:36
perceived but the thoughts themselves
36:40
are relative produced by a brain so yeah
36:50
then you see or not only is the world
36:52
relative but thoughts are relative so
37:03
then I take my thoughts less seriously
37:07
if my thoughts are considered to be
37:10
absolute then we take them seriously
37:19
another I presume that you speak on
37:23
another level today as I recollect
37:27
yesterday but maybe my memories maybe I
37:30
misunderstood what you were speaking
37:32
yesterday as I collected you said
37:35
something like we try to find happiness
37:39
in a daily life and you didn’t say that
37:44
but I understood who cares about truth
37:46
if I find happiness in their life but
37:52
now you are speaking that you are
37:57
speaking about truth it perhaps sits at
38:03
another level different dimension
38:06
dimension or or maybe I misunderstood
38:08
what you said well yes you see this is
38:13
where we have to see ok so
38:14
contradictions are not necessarily
38:18
contradictions if we see that this is a
38:21
process unfolding that this journey is a
38:28
process and at certain points we need to
38:33
hear something it’s relevant and then at
38:36
other points it needs to get corrected
38:40
so this feeling inside at some point
38:45
someone says I don’t want to live like
38:47
this anymore I’ve had enough so I’ve had
39:01
enough
39:02
of living this way we have this feeling
39:06
and as part of that feeling we get the
39:15
information that says I’m I just want
39:18
the truth that comes up I don’t want to
39:23
keep living this luck this way I am
39:26
living a lie I’m putting forward a false
39:29
image to the world and it feels Hollow
39:35
it isn’t fulfilling and so at some point
39:41
when that feeling comes up we just
39:46
surrender this image this way of living
39:52
life that is sort of pretending and we
39:57
start seeking truth it doesn’t mean that
40:00
there is an absolute truth this is what
40:03
I was saying yesterday is that once we
40:07
start seeking truth we find some truths
40:14
that are good enough that we can call
40:18
truth but if we investigate completely
40:22
we might find that even that which I
40:24
thought was truth turns out not to be
40:27
absolute in itself so when we
40:36
investigate the manifestation we find a
40:40
lot of things that we believe to be true
40:42
are just relative like the table we said
40:46
the table is true the table is real it’s
40:49
there I can knock on it
40:51
so we’ve taken perception and experience
40:54
to be a reflection of truth once we
40:58
realize that experience is all relative
41:02
then we say oh maybe even though it
41:06
seems real because
41:10
it’s actually perception and experience
41:15
even though it seems real on the basis
41:18
of the pointer or the definition that
41:23
which is real doesn’t change I can say
41:26
well I know that on a molecular level
41:28
the table is changing continuously it’s
41:33
always in flux and on an appearance
41:36
level it looks like it doesn’t change
41:38
but when I understand it on a deeper
41:42
level I see it’s always changing so then
41:43
I say that which I used to take as real
41:46
or true according to this definition is
41:50
not now it’s not to just go around
41:53
saying oh well the table is not real so
41:56
the chairs and we really need to know
41:58
the fundamental reason why and in this
42:02
basis that the fundamental reason is
42:04
it’s continually changing and the
42:07
process of change means that in a
42:10
hundred years this table won’t be a
42:13
table it will have changed into
42:16
something radically different being
42:19
burnt or whatever disintegrated and some
42:24
things take more than a hundred years to
42:26
disintegrate a million years and in a
42:29
million years even the mountain might
42:32
not be there and because the duration of
42:40
time that it takes for something to
42:43
change is long then our perception of it
42:47
says it’s the same but if we see it in
42:52
one minute and in a million years later
42:54
what we would see is two very different
42:55
things
42:56
now if that change happened in a second
43:00
instead of in a million years what would
43:03
happen is the table would be there and
43:05
then it wouldn’t be there because it
43:08
changed and if in life something is
43:12
there one man isn’t not there the other
43:14
the next minute what do we say we say
43:16
that’s not real it’s it’s an illusion
43:19
it’s an appearance so someone could
43:22
create a
43:23
the Gram image that’s there and then
43:26
they turn the light off and it’s not
43:28
there and so we click wow you know that
43:30
hologram image that I you know from a
43:33
distance I was sure it was a man it
43:35
looked real as soon as it changes our
43:38
brain realizes that which is real can’t
43:40
change so it’s an illusion if the cup
43:45
suddenly vanished from the table
43:48
straight away we’d start reassessing how
43:52
real we consider cups to be if they can
43:56
just vanish then we say well they’re
43:58
here for now and while it’s here I can
44:00
even drink out of it but then it
44:02
vanishes so and I can’t drink out of it
44:04
anymore
44:05
so I’d say even though it’s here and it
44:08
seems real and functionally it’s real I
44:10
know it’s not real because if it’s real
44:14
it wouldn’t change so we start looking
44:21
at everything that’s unreal in the
44:23
manifestation everything there and then
44:26
we come across something that doesn’t
44:28
change when you said really you mean
44:31
stable doesn’t change the same order
44:44
yeah each time you look at it it’s the
44:48
same it will always be the same and you
44:51
know with a mug you know look at it
44:53
today tomorrow it might have fallen on
44:54
the floor you look at it’s not the same
44:56
and so based on your observation of
45:01
things is it always going to be the same
45:05
is it always the same in your own
45:06
experience and so we see all of these
45:11
things that are always changing and now
45:13
we start saying okay so that’s not real
45:15
on this basis and we might even realize
45:19
that we understand it’s not real because
45:22
it’s changing and then we start looking
45:25
at it with a different light that yes
45:30
it’s true it’s always changing it’s
45:31
always changing actually in my
45:33
experience this is where it can get a
45:35
little bit fun
45:36
maybe it can seem a little esoteric or
45:42
even very non practical but if you look
45:48
at a chair it’s there and and now it’s
45:53
not so it’s like wow in my experience in
45:57
an instant the chair vanished and this
46:03
tables and in an instant the tables
46:09
vanish and there’s a chair so because
46:14
we’re starting to see that which changes
46:18
isn’t real so this all becomes how it
46:25
unfolds who knows if for me that was
46:27
fascinating as like so there’s the
46:29
experience is it real or that that’s why
46:34
I call it an experience before if I
46:37
considered it to be real I didn’t used
46:39
to call it an experience when I
46:42
considered it real there was an
46:45
objective world and I walk around in it
46:48
and the world is there all the time
46:52
because it’s a reality and so then we
46:57
start one start questioning what we call
46:59
reality if that which changes isn’t real
47:03
is the universe real so we’re seeking
47:15
for that which doesn’t change we start
47:17
to see all that changes at some point we
47:19
might recognize there are some things
47:23
which maybe we shouldn’t even use the
47:25
word things in the manifestation that in
47:29
the experience that don’t change and
47:36
you know the wisdom teachings came along
47:39
and all along they were saying what is
47:41
real you know what you are because what
47:44
we are is real in a certain context but
47:48
much more real than the beliefs that
47:51
we’ve taken ourselves to be that are
47:54
always changing much more real than even
47:57
the body that is changing you know day
48:00
by day even you know you look at
48:02
yourself in the mirror in the space of a
48:04
week there’s a difference or in the
48:06
space of a month there’s a difference
48:08
definitely over several years you see a
48:09
difference so what we are why we’re
48:13
seeking truth is because what we are at
48:16
our core is truth what we are at our
48:19
core is that which doesn’t change that’s
48:21
why we actually intuitively are seeking
48:24
truth we’re seeking ourselves and it’s
48:31
intuitively why we feel uncomfortable
48:33
when we believe ourselves to be
48:35
something that is changing when we when
48:39
we identify with ourself as a set of
48:42
beliefs
48:43
it feels really uncomfortable because
48:45
it’s not who we are at our core so
48:47
seeking happens because intuitively know
48:50
that I call we are something that
48:53
doesn’t change so we see in the
48:55
manifestation everything that changed
48:57
and then we might start to realize okay
48:59
there is something that doesn’t change
49:01
that which is aware of the changing that
49:05
which is aware of that which comes and
49:07
goes the awareness is always present in
49:13
order for the changing to be known or in
49:18
order for the changing to be aware and
49:22
awareness in itself doesn’t have
49:26
characteristics awareness doesn’t come
49:36
and go like the changing objects so once
49:42
again someone can say but yesterday you
49:46
said even awareness is not real
49:50
awareness comes and goes so now you
49:53
might see that okay so this is a
49:54
progression before I can come to the
49:58
conclusion that even awareness comes and
50:01
goes first I need to become aware of
50:02
awareness as that which doesn’t change
50:05
relative to let’s say objects so we’re
50:11
we’re creating a conceptual contrast to
50:17
be able to land on that which is much
50:20
more real in the manifestation than the
50:23
things that change more so than the
50:26
awareness so in the manifestation the
50:28
awareness is ever-present and when we
50:33
drop into that beingness and that
50:36
awareness we find it’s the same all the
50:39
time you know if you break your leg and
50:43
you go into the awareness it’s the same
50:44
awareness that was there before you
50:46
break your leg if you are aware of an
50:50
experience that is people fighting then
50:54
it is the same awareness that is aware
50:56
of the people fighting as the awareness
50:59
which is aware of a situation where
51:01
people are singing Kumbaya around a you
51:04
know a fire that awareness doesn’t
51:09
change regardless of the content so we
51:13
come to this this which doesn’t change
51:16
so we say truth is that which doesn’t
51:20
change so awareness is truth awareness
51:23
is absolute everything else is relative
51:25
so I tend to like to use words as
51:30
precisely as is possible so when in the
51:35
in the main teaching frameworks is the
51:37
only truth in the manifestation is the
51:40
impersonal sense of I am and included in
51:43
that it means the sense of existence
51:46
being and the awareness of the moment
51:50
the only truth in them but you see I’ve
51:53
in the manifestation we could say it’s
51:58
much more true than the objects then
52:01
come and go later on
52:03
I we might have a discourse that says
52:08
actually the awareness and the objects
52:11
are not – and therefore the awareness
52:13
collapses with the object that’s for
52:18
later on in fact that yeah the if we can
52:27
come to see that I not mix it all up if
52:33
we mix it all up then the pointers
52:35
aren’t clear if we can start to see okay
52:40
so when I hear that it means this sort
52:44
of investigation and then when it when I
52:47
hear something that sounds contradictory
52:48
it’s up to me to ask questions and find
52:52
out why it’s contradictory so exactly
52:54
what you did and hopefully now it
52:58
becomes more clear but we’re looking for
53:03
happiness in the manifestation happiness
53:06
for Roger in this life which turns out
53:09
to be peace of mind as the concept goes
53:12
the peace of mind is attitudinal and the
53:19
attitude is not part of the flow of life
53:23
so our attitude can be consistent our
53:26
attitude can be unchanging if it’s if it
53:30
becomes the attitude of the heart the
53:32
attitude of that which doesn’t change
53:34
meaning being and awareness we can end
53:39
up with a consistent attitude which is
53:41
the attitude that stems from our true
53:43
nature a true nature that knows that it
53:46
is not added to or subtracted from by
53:49
what happens in the flow of life means
53:51
it’s unchanging regardless of
53:53
circumstance we’ve we’ve now moved a
53:58
little bit down into the implications of
54:00
this so we skipped past the bit about
54:05
seeing what we didn’t we explained that
54:08
seeing everything is relative based on
54:11
perception which is relative of the
54:13
instruments
54:15
that’s see a relative brain that
54:18
processes it is an instrument that is
54:21
limited so everything have all the
54:23
outputs it produces a relative that that
54:29
was that’s the point I really wanted to
54:31
make is to come to see that all of our
54:33
beliefs all of our conclusions about
54:37
life a relative unchanging and not to
54:42
hold on to them as if they’re absolute
54:45
so once it becomes clear that in
54:48
principle you cannot have a thought
54:53
which is absolute it simply is
54:56
impossible because a thought gets spat
54:58
out of a brain which is based on genes
55:04
and up-to-date-conditioning so it’s
55:06
completely it’s a machine it’s relative
55:08
and the brain produces outputs based on
55:14
inputs and all of the inputs are
55:15
relative and limited so say I can never
55:18
know anything that’s a really great
55:25
conclusion to come to I can never know
55:29
anything which doesn’t mean that the
55:32
knowledge that we have is not useful
55:34
it’s very useful for certain things and
55:36
so when someone tells me can you tell me
55:39
where the shop is and I go to my my
55:43
brain says the shop is that way and
55:45
round the corner I don’t say oh I
55:46
actually I don’t know because I don’t
55:51
know anything
55:52
absolutely I know that I have knowledge
55:55
is very useful in daily living so I say
55:58
the shop as far as I’m aware if we want
56:01
it as far as I’m aware the shop is down
56:03
there and to the left we know we might
56:06
have got it right wrong we might have
56:07
been one of the first times we’ve gone
56:09
to the shop and we walked that way
56:11
turned to the left but then we forgot
56:13
that we actually did some more things to
56:15
get there so we could be wrong well we
56:18
could actually be a lot of times
56:20
especially if you live in the area and
56:22
you know the shop is down there to the
56:23
left the shop might have been
56:27
closed last night last night might have
56:30
been the last day of the shop and
56:32
they’ve overnight they’ve renovated it
56:34
into something else and we’re wrong the
56:39
shop isn’t there it doesn’t exist
56:41
anymore so but we aren’t so that’s where
56:43
we know we could be wrong I could have
56:45
forgotten I could be wrong all the way
56:47
so we know all of my thoughts are
56:52
relative it’s it’s it’s life-changing
57:00
all of my perceptions are relative the
57:04
chair is completely unreal
57:08
when it comes to the definition of truth
57:12
or reality on the deepest of levels or
57:19
the deepest of levels within the
57:21
manifestation so that means we see that
57:24
now you look at a chair now and you’re
57:27
going to go when when it sinks in it’s
57:30
like that is not real we still sit in it
57:34
right so on another level we know it’s
57:36
real enough but it’s not absolutely real
57:41
and I I really do like this now the
57:44
chair doesn’t exist in my experience
57:47
it’s sudden instantaneously you know so
57:50
the example that it will take hundreds
57:52
of years for that chair to change on one
57:55
level yes well maybe not hundreds of
57:59
years on one level yes but also we can
58:02
see instantaneously it’s not there and
58:06
then it’s appeared again and now it’s
58:10
vanished so within our field of
58:12
awareness which is the experience which
58:14
is life so if we can this is really
58:17
becoming present with what life is life
58:20
is an experience in the present moment
58:21
so if we become present with life as an
58:25
experience in the present moment we know
58:27
that so many things that we take to be
58:30
real are continually changing meaning
58:33
continually vanishing continuously
58:35
vanishing and we have a belief system
58:40
that says they’re real and so they’re
58:42
really still here so my car we have a
58:48
belief system my car is real and so it
58:51
exists now but in the experience it
58:54
doesn’t it doesn’t exist now it it’s
58:59
completely changing on a much more
59:04
dynamic level than we might have
59:07
previously given credit for and so if we
59:11
see that the whole momentary experience
59:13
is completely changing it completely
59:16
arises and subsides very quickly so the
59:22
feeling of closing our eyes and the
59:27
sense that I am in control of closing my
59:30
eyes is in this present moment
59:33
experience it’s part of the experience
59:36
and so when we what we call closing our
59:40
eyes that’s the experience suggesting
59:43
that we’re closing our eyes and when
59:46
we’re present with the experience there
59:50
are no eyes that are closed there is no
59:56
chair or people the experience has
60:01
changed radically now why can the
60:05
experience change radically because it’s
60:06
not true it’s not real we’ve started to
60:11
see actually on a on one level we start
60:16
to see how the chair is not real because
60:20
it changes in a hundred years and if it
60:24
changed in ten seconds instead of a
60:27
hundred years we’d conclude yes it’s not
60:29
real based on my observation and even
60:33
the hundred year change is it’s based on
60:36
our observation on our experience we
60:38
know we’ve seen chairs change we’ve seen
60:43
them burning fires
60:48
so anyway it’s not really about
60:50
convincing about this clicking right
60:53
here right now this is new conditioning
60:56
that gets thrown out by life it becomes
61:00
part of the up-to-date-conditioning and
61:03
as we’re walking through life will find
61:06
thoughts arise and that those thoughts
61:10
are based on our genes and
61:11
up-to-date-conditioning so if this
61:13
conversation is completely uninteresting
61:17
then it may mean that the new
61:20
conditioning doesn’t become part of our
61:22
up-to-date conditioning and it means
61:25
that our up-to-date-conditioning won’t
61:27
contemplate this particular topic and it
61:32
means that this realization from the
61:35
perspective I’m talking of may not
61:38
happen this way and that may not be a
61:41
problem at all because life can bring
61:43
about change in many many other ways but
61:47
what I enjoy doing is talking from my
61:50
own experience putting forward those
61:53
insights that came that seems
61:56
significant and also elaborating on some
61:59
of the intermediate thought patterns
62:04
that happened before the insight clicked
62:11
a interesting part of this observation
62:16
is to then come to see that the
62:19
awareness that is ever present is
62:24
actually never separate from the object
62:26
that is recognized that the object is
62:29
not recognized as at a distance to the
62:32
awareness that recognizes it and that
62:35
requires us to question whether that
62:37
which is real the awareness that which
62:40
is unchanging could it possibly be a
62:44
result of an instrument that is
62:51
continually changing
62:54
could it be that this awareness that is
62:57
ever-present in the manifestation and
63:00
unchanging its nature is unchanging
63:03
could it possibly be that that awareness
63:07
comes from a source that is continually
63:10
changing it doesn’t make sense didn’t
63:13
make sense to me when I saw it that way
63:15
Wow that which is unchanging
63:19
medical science tells me it comes from
63:21
the brain the brain is an instrument
63:25
that is continually changing all the
63:28
molecules and everything continually
63:29
changing it is one of those things that
63:33
on this test of relativity is very
63:36
relative can it possibly be that
63:38
something relative produces something
63:40
absolute or is it the other way around
63:44
does the body appear as part of the
63:48
changing within that that doesn’t change
63:51
it’s a complete flip and there’s a god
63:57
out at some point I believe I’ve seen
63:59
some quotes that say something along the
64:01
lines and I even I think without being
64:07
exposed to that or I might be wrong
64:09
maybe I was exposed to that but at some
64:11
point that was the realization and I
64:13
said the same thing maybe it was
64:15
inspired by this the real he said
64:19
awakening is the shift from believing
64:25
that you are an object that walks
64:27
through an objective reality the shift
64:31
that then allows you to see that the
64:33
whole world or the whole universe arises
64:36
inside what you are and in my experience
64:43
that shift happened when the glue which
64:47
kept the perspective a particular way
64:50
got hardened and cracked and the process
64:54
of the glue hardening and cracking was
64:57
this process of assessing the difference
65:00
between the relative and the absolute
65:04
and
65:07
stopping to relate to the relative as
65:10
absolute which is what tended to be the
65:13
case previously because it makes sense
65:16
in our experience unless we start
65:19
looking closely unless we start
65:21
including dreams as part of the
65:24
experience as long as for as long as we
65:26
don’t include deep sleep as part of the
65:28
experience as long as we just look at
65:31
daily living as experience or reality
65:35
and then dreams and deep sleepers
65:37
something different then we’re always
65:41
going to have the experience that says
65:42
this is always here this is real when we
65:46
start bringing in certain contrasts like
65:50
deep sleep where is this in deep sleep
65:52
so we have a belief that says well deep
65:54
sleep is just me switched off and this
66:00
is still here when I am switched off
66:02
when we start seeing that actually
66:06
experience arises inside what I am and
66:09
deep sleep could be the absence of
66:13
experience deep sleep might not be the
66:15
body which we consider to be real
66:17
switched off and then the world is still
66:19
here maybe deep sleep is the dissolving
66:22
of the experience of the world so if we
66:26
start looking at that we start
66:27
contrasting to experiences the presence
66:32
of the world and the absence of the
66:33
world then we say wow where did the
66:36
world go I never I never considered the
66:38
absence of the world so I always thought
66:40
the world was real so if we always see
66:45
the world as real meaning we relate to
66:48
the relative a zap zap solute then what
66:54
happens is the absolute the real
66:57
absolute gets missed make sense if we’re
67:02
looking at that and that’s real then the
67:06
thing that is really real isn’t seen
67:13
how can we see how can we see the real
67:15
when our label of real is you know it’s
67:22
like how can we see the table so we’re
67:25
asked to go in and look at the table go
67:28
into the room and look at the table if
67:30
in our head table means we think that a
67:35
table is what really looks is a chair we
67:38
go into the room and we look at the
67:39
chair and someone says are you looking
67:41
at the table yep I’m looking at the
67:43
table are you sure you looking at I’m
67:46
sure I’m looking at the table now so
67:48
when we take the table to be a chair we
67:53
think we’re looking at the table and
67:55
then we never look at the table so if we
67:58
take the relative to be absolute we
68:02
think we’re looking at the real we think
68:04
we’re looking at the absolute and the
68:06
real never goes noticed or goes
68:10
unnoticed so when someone says no no
68:15
that’s not the table that’s the chair
68:19
become aware of the table then you go I
68:22
am no no that’s the chair that’s the
68:26
chair yes don’t look at the chair no I’m
68:31
looking at the tape no that’s the chair
68:32
don’t look at the chair and in somewhere
68:38
it says okay that’s not a table that’s a
68:41
chair
68:41
look at the table don’t look at the
68:44
chair okay and then we suddenly you know
68:47
it clicked don’t look at the chair and
68:49
then we can see the table actually
68:55
spiritual seeking is about a movement of
69:02
seeing that which was previously unseen
69:10
I have to say it again this topic was
69:15
probably you know this was within the
69:18
first year of seeking and when I look
69:21
back on it the realization that is the
69:24
base of the deepening that will continue
69:28
to happen forever probably there’s a
69:30
realization that happens that doesn’t
69:35
deepen as a realization which is the
69:39
realization it needs a whole lot of
69:42
refining and it deepens but the course
69:48
shift it’s a shift in identity or it’s a
69:52
shift from identifying with the relative
69:56
to being that which is not relative
70:00
that’s the shift this shift happened
70:05
after a fairly short period of seeking
70:09
having started but because I thought
70:12
that this transformation was about a
70:17
whole lot of other things there was a
70:20
lot of period where the refining was
70:24
happening and I didn’t realize that the
70:28
significant change had happened and when
70:33
the peak experiences of oneness started
70:37
to happen and I thought oh this is it
70:39
this is the significant stuff that’s
70:42
happening and it was only when Ramesh
70:45
pointed out no that’s experience also
70:48
experience that it sort of meant this
70:52
understanding went even deeper and when
70:59
the idea that the experiences were it
71:03
when that idea fell away and the
71:08
stabilized peace started to kick in and
71:11
I really started to understand from
71:15
experience where the piece was stemming
71:18
from like what the cause of the piece
71:20
was and
71:21
back and I saw the significant shift was
71:24
this shift that I’m talking about now
71:26
the shift whereby the relative gets seen
71:30
as relative and the absolute then comes
71:34
into focus
71:35
now I haven’t thought about this let’s
71:38
see how this ties in with what I’m
71:41
really looking for is happiness in daily
71:44
living happiness in daily living is the
71:47
end of suffering continuous unbroken
71:51
peace of mind for the human being what
71:54
we find out is that the cause of
71:57
suffering is a set of false beliefs that
72:02
have been put in place by life meaning
72:05
put in place by our experience of life
72:07
our observation of life our conclusion
72:11
of life all of which are relative the
72:15
belief has been put in place in such a
72:17
way where it is considered to be truth
72:21
and therefore as life unfolds it hits
72:29
into these beliefs that we consider to
72:30
be Who I am and these reactions of guilt
72:34
blame pride worry expectation happen and
72:37
then a concept comes along and says hey
72:40
you are not the doer in fact before that
72:43
if we go deeper at some point in order
72:47
to realize what we really are we have to
72:49
see I’m not even the body the body is
72:53
relative so a concept came in that you
72:57
are not the body what why was it saying
73:00
that you are not the body it was saying
73:01
don’t believe yourself to be something
73:03
relative you are not something relative
73:08
to the extent you ident you feel
73:11
yourself you believe yourself when so
73:14
read these beliefs that I’m talking
73:16
about a deeply ingrained beliefs they’re
73:17
not a belief that happens when you know
73:20
something happens in the flow of life
73:22
and it says I believe I’m the body and
73:24
this is an attack on the body the belief
73:27
is deeply deeply ingrained this belief I
73:30
am the body and I am the doer and I need
73:32
this and that in order to be happy
73:34
deeply deeply ingrained and if some
73:39
process doesn’t come in and loosen up
73:41
our understanding of what is real what
73:49
can be real then our beliefs remain
73:52
being taken to be real as soon as a
73:57
belief is seen to be a thought and it
74:00
can never be truth then even the notion
74:03
that the experienced notion that says I
74:07
am the body so if someone says so what
74:11
are you based on your experience we then
74:14
put forward a concept but that concept
74:17
usually is actually a belief say well I
74:20
am this essentially the body that’s the
74:26
answer to the question and I actually
74:28
think that’s an honest answer you know I
74:30
wouldn’t want someone to say well what I
74:32
am is consciousness just because they’ve
74:34
heard that they’re going from one’s own
74:37
experience it’s an honest answer that
74:39
the question I am the body and to see
74:41
that that’s our honest answer based on
74:43
our experience is good and then we can
74:45
start questioning is it true is it
74:50
absolute and we thought my table no this
74:55
is a concept based on the experience in
74:59
the moment it’s a concept based on how
75:02
life has presented itself is it true no
75:06
it’s not true it might be it’s I give it
75:08
I granted it’s an experience
75:10
it’s how the experience is presented but
75:12
it’s not true
75:13
it’s then we might start entertaining
75:15
the fact actually I am NOT the body not
75:22
as a new belief but as a counter to the
75:25
deeply ingrained belief I am the body
75:27
hmm so we might remind ourselves I’m not
75:32
the body we might remind ourselves that
75:35
when life impacts us and we react as if
75:39
I am the body only the body when our
75:43
attitude arises in such a way
75:46
that life impacts us and the reaction is
75:50
I am the body this is an attack on Who I
75:53
am the thought might arise I’m not the
75:55
body that’s a belief based on an
76:01
experience
76:01
it can’t be truth
76:09
I am that which is aware of the body
76:38
so just on the last point there is a
76:42
concept put forward in the teaching that
76:44
says what the human being is is
76:47
impersonal consciousness of source
76:49
linked to a body functioning through the
76:52
body as personal consciousness that’s a
76:56
concept it’s a very different concept to
76:58
I am the body so it includes the body as
77:03
part of what the more integrated so what
77:07
I’ve just put forward that concept of
77:09
what the human is is a more integrated
77:12
concept description of what the human is
77:17
where we start off with the belief I am
77:20
just the body that belief needs to be
77:23
broken it needs to be broken and then
77:25
there’s a realization of what I am is
77:28
consciousness or awareness that which
77:31
doesn’t change then even that’s not
77:33
quite right it’s that’s the essence of
77:36
what you are but don’t forget that the
77:38
experience is that you are also the body
77:42
and so haven’t awoken to the essence of
77:47
what we are for a while we will go
77:49
around being deluded because there will
77:51
be a new belief that says I am awareness
77:53
all there is is awareness everything
77:56
else is unreal
77:57
I am awareness and at some point we
78:01
loosen up and we realize all this could
78:03
be just a belief and if I go to the
78:05
experience even though all experience is
78:08
unreal
78:09
we said well but I am part of the
78:12
experience and the illusory experience
78:15
is the world in which we have to live so
78:18
he said at some point I as the illusory
78:22
person needs to live in Saluja a world
78:26
as if the illusory world is real and so
78:31
then from that point where we’ve
78:32
accepted it’s a it’s a game it’s a
78:36
creation but it doesn’t just end when we
78:40
realize that the game actually carries
78:42
on and then the integration is to be
78:44
able to live in the experience as the
78:50
human and so then but
78:52
concept but forward is then what the
78:55
human being is what the person a person
78:57
is is not just the body it’s not just
79:00
awareness but it’s awareness functioning
79:03
through the body as personal
79:04
consciousness and the package is the
79:07
person it’s a concept also it’s not the
79:10
truth but it’s a concept that all of
79:13
these concepts to me are accurate
79:15
concepts from a certain perspective and
79:19
they’re also very useful so I don’t know
79:24
how many times it’s been said everything
79:26
that is put forward is a concept it is
79:28
not the truth the only truth in the
79:31
manifestation is the impersonal sense of
79:33
I am and even that is it’s a truth in
79:36
the manifestation and reality includes
79:42
the manifest and the unmanifest so the
79:45
impersonal sense of I am might not be an
79:47
absolute truth but nonetheless it’s
79:49
enough of a truth for us to recognize
79:52
for there to be happiness in the
79:56
manifestation so all of these are
79:58
concepts not the truth but they are
80:03
pointers that what needs to be seen you
80:10
just you just said it I just wanted to
80:14
say that if it becomes a belief that I’m
80:18
various then it’s just another belief no
80:23
it’s meat so but the experience actually
80:30
fair enough even tells us from the
80:34
aspect of psychosis I horses for example
80:38
with people that really have strong
80:43
let’s say belief it’s not a belief but
80:45
strong fiction about things actually see
80:47
it no yeah they see everything as a
80:52
dream no it’s or or psychedelics no
80:54
which which are
80:56
maybe not very that’s a etic example but
81:00
actually from my experience the whole
81:04
platform changes and and it’s not that
81:07
really the clearness of awareness of of
81:13
perception awareness is really disturbed
81:16
it’s even more on alcohol and everything
81:20
is very clear but the whole scenario can
81:23
change and and so actually it’s not
81:27
actually produce it here the reality I
81:33
guess a yes if it becomes a belief it’s
81:42
going to be an obstacle and even if the
81:45
experience shows something if we treat
81:52
it as an experience that comes and goes
81:55
then we’re less likely to form a belief
81:59
about it and if we start seeing things
82:02
like experience when we’re on
82:06
psychedelics let’s say or take alcohol
82:08
and we see that the experience changes
82:11
then it starts to help us see that the
82:15
experience is not static and we stop
82:21
forming beliefs about experience and
82:23
start to see it as experience and so you
82:28
know there’s a if someone just hears
82:30
that they are consciousness or awareness
82:32
and says it then that’s really a problem
82:35
if someone starts having the experience
82:37
like the realization is there that there
82:42
is this that doesn’t change so awareness
82:44
has become aware of itself then even
82:49
that can put in place a belief it the
82:56
the experiences there of of awareness
83:01
being that which is unchanging but then
83:05
an interpretation comes in and that
83:08
interpreter
83:09
can be not aligned enough so if the
83:14
interpretation says what I am is
83:17
awareness I am just awareness then the
83:21
observation hasn’t seen that yes there’s
83:24
awareness but the experience is not the
83:27
body is still there life is still
83:29
perceived from the perspective of the
83:32
body and so the belief that I am
83:36
awareness based on one’s own experience
83:41
might be a belief put in place because
83:44
the experience is seen from a particular
83:46
perspective that the awareness aspect is
83:50
what is standing out and the body aspect
83:52
is not really in the picture much and so
83:56
then we form a belief oh I am awareness
83:58
I am NOT the body which is at some point
84:03
that’s a great realization because we
84:06
started off with introducing the concept
84:08
you are not the belief you are awareness
84:11
that concept was introduced to break the
84:14
belief I am the body we tend to swing to
84:18
the other extreme where we believe the
84:20
concept that was brought in and even so
84:23
the experience changes then we say I I
84:25
believe I am awareness and then even
84:28
that needs to be broken and then we find
84:31
the experience changes like you said
84:34
that the experience of being awareness
84:37
it it comes into the picture but then
84:41
it’s intensified by the belief that I am
84:43
awareness so we can even start having
84:47
oneness experiences that we think are
84:50
reality presenting itself more and more
84:52
but at some point it might be because
84:55
the belief that now I am awareness is
84:59
actually affecting the experience and
85:03
the more that we insist that we are the
85:07
the awareness and the oneness the less
85:09
the body is seen as in in the picture
85:13
and at some point someone says you
85:17
realize you’ve now gone to a point of
85:19
delusion
85:20
where you are over emphasizing one
85:24
aspect of yourself again you used to
85:27
over overemphasize the aspect of the
85:29
body and the awareness aspect was not
85:31
recognized now you’re over emphasizing
85:34
the awareness aspect and the body is not
85:37
being appreciated and when you thought
85:41
you were the body the awareness was
85:42
there really you were a combination of
85:45
the body and awareness and now that you
85:48
believe you are awareness only the body
85:50
is still here
85:51
you are still the body and awareness so
85:54
then when this starts to be seen we
85:57
start to accept our okay maybe I am both
86:02
the body and awareness the person in
86:05
personal consciousness of source linked
86:08
to a particular body functioning through
86:10
that body as personal consciousness so
86:12
once the six these two extremes have
86:14
happened and we come into the middle
86:16
we’re aware of both the body and the
86:19
consciousness and it becomes a more
86:21
integrated experience of being human not
86:25
an experience that is being colored by a
86:30
belief that I am such and such but just
86:36
a an appreciation of the experience
86:40
which was always like that in essence
86:43
there was always a body with awareness
86:45
and the awareness wasn’t recognized and
86:47
then on this side there was still a body
86:49
with awareness and the body wasn’t
86:51
recognized just the awareness and then
86:54
we find ourselves in the middle oh this
86:58
is always what it was I didn’t need to
86:59
put labels on her life in ingrain the
87:04
deeply ingrained belief I am the body
87:07
life undid that using the concept you
87:10
are not the body you are consciousness
87:12
it then ingrained the deeply ingrained
87:15
belief I am consciousness and then life
87:18
came along and said hey let’s use
87:21
another concept to uproot the thorn
87:27
which was originally used to uproot the
87:30
thorn embedded in your thumb which was
87:31
the belief I am the body
87:32
we used
87:34
I am NOT the body I am consciousness to
87:37
take that thorn out unfortunately that
87:39
thorn got put in your thumb now we bring
87:41
in another concept that takes the second
87:45
thorn out and hopefully there’s enough
87:48
wisdom that says I don’t even need this
87:50
third thorn anymore I don’t need a
87:51
definition of Who I am
87:53
because life is now just seen for what
87:58
it is free of beliefs and concepts just
88:04
come in when they are practically
88:06
necessary in daily living and even when
88:10
the concept is in there is a witnessing
88:13
of life happening including a concept
88:16
arising which is always known to be a
88:18
thought always known to be relative so
88:20
we won’t go to war over it so today I
88:25
was gonna write something which I didn’t
88:28
write yet and it says the cause of
88:33
attack and defense and judgment and
88:37
criticism is self doubt self doubt is
88:42
there when we don’t know ourself if we
88:47
believe ourself to be a set of beliefs
88:50
there is self-doubt and whenever we know
88:54
ourself only as these beliefs whenever
88:58
we’re criticized will defend whenever we
89:03
see someone acting differently to our
89:07
belief systems
89:08
then we’ll judge them or attack and so
89:13
all of these movements come from
89:15
self-doubt if we just ah and what I
89:23
suggest the experience is when we are
89:25
just being is an experience of being the
89:28
body through which consciousness is
89:30
functioning so in a way simultaneously
89:33
living as the body and simultaneously
89:37
knowing that I am consciousness that
89:39
functions through the body and
89:40
consciousness in which everything arises
89:43
from that perspective there is no self
89:45
doubt
89:48
and other people’s opinions other
89:51
people’s actions are seen within the
89:55
context of life unfolding and not taken
89:59
to be an attack on Who I am and
90:01
therefore this movement of defending
90:03
this movement of attacking this movement
90:07
of criticizing and judgment falls away
90:09
and the only movement of defense and
90:14
attack would be a biological movement in
90:17
the moment if it’s necessary other than
90:20
there in the background there isn’t this
90:23
movement of defense and attack and
90:25
criticism and judgment and that’s peace
90:30
so suffering comes from self-doubt peace
90:34
comes from the absence of self-doubt
90:37
which means the falling away of belief
90:40
belief of who we are
91:25
my question is not totally formulated
91:29
yet but you started with talking about
91:31
real and unreal and absolute and
91:34
relative and you were saying that what
91:37
is real is that which does not change
91:40
and that in manifestation the only thing
91:45
that is real in manifestation is the
91:47
sense of I am and then at the very end
91:53
you said something like the reality is
91:55
both the unmanifest and the manifest
91:57
that part I didn’t quite understand yeah
92:00
so when we’re looking at just the
92:03
manifest for the time being um we say
92:06
that which is unchanging and therefore
92:09
we can say that which is truth or
92:10
reality in the unmanifest is the
92:13
impersonal sense of I am and included in
92:16
that I am in that context that also so
92:19
the sense of being I exist and
92:21
synonymous with that is awareness so
92:25
that’s the truth in the manifestation
92:27
and I said if you look at truth relative
92:30
to more than just the manifestation and
92:35
someone said what is more than the
92:37
manifestation and so then we can bring
92:39
in them at the the manifest and the
92:41
unmanifest which are not really two
92:45
either it’s not like there is the
92:47
unmanifest than the manifest in the
92:50
description we say the unmanifest
92:51
becomes the manifest but maybe they
92:55
exist simultaneously that the
92:58
essentially it’s saying that the unn the
93:00
manifest is essentially unmanifest so if
93:06
we bring in the notion of the unmanifest
93:08
in the unmanifest even the sense of I am
93:11
and awareness according to this concept
93:15
of the unmanifest are not there and so
93:18
we can’t even then say that awareness
93:22
and I am I absolute truths we can say
93:25
they’re absolute relative to the
93:29
manifestation but relative to a bigger
93:33
picture which is the manifest and the
93:35
unmanifest where I am and
93:37
awareness according to this concept fall
93:40
away then they’re not even real there so
93:44
then we can say well there is no
93:46
absolute from that perspective even the
93:51
I am and awareness that I had taken to
93:54
be absolute maybe even that is not as
93:59
real as it seems because it comes and
94:01
goes it comes with the manifestation it
94:04
goes with the dissolving of the
94:05
manifestation
94:08
yeah so that’s thought I wasn’t sure if
94:10
you were saying that there is no nothing
94:16
that is absolutely there’s nothing that
94:18
is real in essence or if you were saying
94:21
that only the unmanifest is real but
94:24
then you’re saying the unmanifest and
94:26
the manifest are not I mean I don’t know
94:29
if this is a Oh again like you said
94:33
concepts I don’t know how important it
94:35
is with the concepts of the points yeah
94:37
point at what can be seen let’s say
94:41
without concept and so another way of
94:46
saying it is yes we could say that the
94:49
only truth is the unmanifest I would say
94:54
that from one perspective the only truth
94:56
is the unmanifest which means the
94:59
unmanifest is absolute
95:01
the ten Shi ality so the absolute
95:05
absolute is absolutely nothing so I
95:06
would say there is nothing is truth
95:11
absolute nothing is truth it’s all very
95:17
poetic rhythm um that we’re looking for
95:20
truth as something and in the final
95:25
analysis even the thing in the
95:27
manifestation which is no thing the I am
95:31
and the awareness so it’s funny when we
95:35
say no thing really what it no thing in
95:37
this context as I’m using it means not
95:40
an object probably what you could say is
95:43
the subject in the manifestation
95:49
even that it is something relative to
95:53
the unmanifest so even that is not truth
95:58
we find I’m looking for true truth is
96:01
never anything anyway it’s you know it’s
96:06
part part of the bits that can become
96:09
part of our contemplation and so if you
96:13
find yourself contemplating and certain
96:15
things click into place and certain bits
96:18
are still sticking out they’re not quite
96:21
fitting in to the model that’s when you
96:25
ask a specific question this is just
96:30
something out of curiosity because I’ve
96:32
lately I’ve been coming across these
96:35
descriptions of or that on on the path
96:41
sometimes you can get stuck in this void
96:46
or nothingness mm-hm and I mean I don’t
96:50
know this from experience but I i get
96:54
the sense that is not the no thingness
96:57
that you’re talking about because it
96:58
seems like there’s still a subject
97:01
that’s experiencing that void but so
97:06
when that’s as I interpret what you’ve
97:08
just said right um you said you’re
97:12
reading things that say sometimes we can
97:14
get stuck in the nothingness what it
97:18
means is what I was talking about before
97:20
where we now are convinced that I am NOT
97:24
the body
97:25
I am awareness and so being awareness
97:30
can seem like you’re I’m this is not
97:35
conceptual this is this is we will say
97:39
this is not conceptual this is
97:40
experiential remember when we believed
97:45
that we were the body we wouldn’t have
97:48
said it’s conceptual we would say well
97:50
it’s experiential and we put forward the
97:53
notion there is a concept that has been
97:55
turned into a belief deep in the system
97:56
I am the body that is making the
97:59
experience
98:01
a certain way and then when that shifts
98:04
the experience changes and there is an
98:07
experience of being awareness and
98:10
because the experience is like that and
98:12
the wisdom teachings have told us you
98:14
are not the body you are awareness the
98:17
mind the thinking then starts saying I
98:21
am awareness so it’s that that we start
98:23
having conversations with people who are
98:26
exhibiting symptoms of believing they
98:30
are the body and so this person then
98:32
says you’re not the body you are
98:34
we’re awareness what I am is awareness I
98:37
am NOT the body I am awareness and
98:39
without us realizing it it becomes
98:41
starts to become a belief I am awareness
98:45
that belief actually can intensify what
98:50
seems like a non conceptual experiential
98:53
reality so the fact that the awareness
98:57
aspect becomes stronger and stronger the
98:59
body aspect becomes smaller and smaller
99:01
and then some people will go around
99:05
criticize like criticizing the use of
99:08
certain language because now they
99:13
believe that they are awareness that the
99:15
reality is awareness and so if someone
99:17
uses any form of dualistic term even if
99:20
it’s coming from a place of actually
99:22
grounded integration the person who’s
99:25
stuck in awareness will find fault
99:28
saying that’s dualistic you can’t say
99:31
that and that in itself is a symptom of
99:35
someone who is stuck in the nothingness
99:39
stuck in the experience of being
99:43
awareness sounds more like people who
99:53
are stuck in the oneness experience
99:57
where they feel everything is yeah like
99:59
this awareness and there is no
100:02
distinction between
100:03
but the descriptions that I’ve been
100:06
reading about this void or absolute like
100:09
this emptiness sounds more like a
100:16
yeah like something scary you know like
100:19
some absence of of everything and not
100:26
necess
100:28
so I don’t maybe they are the same thing
100:29
I’d well you know why why I form the
100:33
interpretation of what I put forward is
100:35
because the word nothingness so void and
100:38
nothingness if someone uses the word
100:40
void for so the word nothingness is used
100:44
to point at awareness because when we
100:50
are that we find I I can’t put a finger
100:53
on where I am where am I located what am
100:57
i it’s sort of formless and then some
101:01
people teachers have said it’s no thing
101:05
right this awareness is nothing and then
101:08
it’s like no thingness nothingness and
101:11
so the word used to describe the
101:16
formless awareness that we can come to
101:18
know ourself as well at least there’s an
101:22
awakening to that and then we become a
101:24
little bit over enthusiastic and say I
101:26
am that’s all I am is often referred to
101:30
as no thingness and so then integrated
101:36
teaching will come along and say you
101:38
know one of the common dead ends where
101:43
you tend to get stuck for a while is
101:45
getting lost or stuck in this being no
101:49
thingness if someone uses the void for
101:54
at the word void for no thingness then I
101:58
don’t think it’s very good use of the
102:00
word void it actually creates the
102:02
impression yours and so void is a much
102:07
emptier I think like you could say
102:11
complete void is complete absence of
102:14
almost even of even awareness so the
102:18
word void if I was going to use it would
102:22
be much more akin to the unmanifest
102:27
where you describe the unmanifest it
102:29
seems like like you’re saying there is
102:30
no one to you exactly so so I wouldn’t
102:34
there’s no fear in void because there’s
102:38
no one to be afraid there’s not even
102:39
awareness of the void so void as I would
102:42
use it is even devoid of awareness so
102:47
not a scary experience maybe scary to
102:50
think about because if we think about it
102:52
in the manifestation the thought of
102:54
absolute nothing creates a fear for that
102:57
which thinks it is something then the
103:01
only other interpretation I’ll put
103:03
forward here is there is an experience
103:07
that happens of existential fear in the
103:12
manifestation that when we start
103:15
investigating the relativity of
103:17
experience and the emptiness starts to
103:21
become apparent and the ideas of who I
103:27
am are seen to be just beliefs and very
103:30
quickly a whole lot of shedding of who I
103:33
thought I was can happen we can actually
103:36
see that Raja from one perspective Roger
103:39
is thought not Roger that suffers but
103:43
even Roger afterwards is Roger comes
103:46
into existence in a personal way with
103:51
like I like such and such comes in when
103:55
a thought I like such and such arises
103:58
and to see that that thought is it comes
104:02
and it goes we can suddenly if we
104:06
haven’t landed on this sense of I am
104:08
only we see all this stuff that we
104:11
thought we were and we see it’s
104:14
transitory and flimsy it’s like Who am I
104:20
and a sense of fear not really a thought
104:23
but it’s like a feeling of like almost
104:27
panic and existential fright like Who am
104:31
I then
104:34
can come upon us for a certain period of
104:37
time um and I don’t know that we get
104:41
stuck in that it’s not if someone says
104:44
we tend to get stuck in there usually I
104:47
would suggest someone would say we tend
104:49
to get stuck somewhere when there’s a
104:50
mental belief holding us somewhere this
104:54
existential fear and sometimes in a
104:58
meditation there can be an ex an
105:01
experience which we could use the word
105:04
void for where everything sort of
105:08
collapses and all there is is awareness
105:12
but doesn’t seem to be anything else and
105:16
it can feel like everything is gone it’s
105:21
not really everything because awareness
105:22
is still there but you know we’re
105:25
starting to talk about subtleties when
105:27
we start to talk about awareness and the
105:30
absence of awareness so someone would
105:32
very we use the word nothing just you
105:35
know oh I was in meditation and there
105:38
was awareness of nothing and in fact
105:40
what we’re calling nothing when we say
105:42
awareness of nothing there were lots of
105:46
movement and light let’s say there was
105:49
nothing because there were no chairs and
105:51
tables and body and but we tend to use
105:55
the word nothing a little bit flippantly
105:57
and so I don’t know I hope that helps
106:02
but I would be quite sure that when
106:05
there’s a sort of teaching that you know
106:08
what not really criticizes but points
106:10
out that there is this tendency to get
106:12
stuck in this nothingness I’d be quite
106:15
sure it’s when I say quite sure knowing
106:20
there’s all sorts of things that can
106:23
make us interpret things not as they’re
106:25
being intended quite sure it’s pointing
106:28
at this notion which is very common in
106:34
non-dual seeking to to believe to
106:42
experience
106:43
a very impractical experience so the
106:47
experience becomes an experience that
106:49
has got nothing to do with daily living
106:51
actually and then we go around making
106:55
statements in daily living that are
106:58
based on the experience and from outside
107:00
it’s like this guy’s a bit cuckoo and
107:02
it’s part of the process and at some
107:07
point we realize who I was a bit cuckoo
107:10
but it’s part of the process can I ask
107:16
one more question that’s more more well
107:20
that’s on a completely different topic
107:22
yes um so today during meditation I had
107:27
the opportunity to try out some of the
107:32
so there was this feeling of
107:34
uncomfortableness and restlessness and
107:38
somehow the idea came that maybe I can
107:43
try that whole labeling thing which to
107:47
be honest I didn’t think I was like that
107:51
I didn’t think that that uncomfortable
107:54
feeling could be related to these
107:56
feelings of guilt blame and all the
108:00
other stuff but once I started labeling
108:03
just you know the fleeting thoughts that
108:05
would come I was quite surprised to see
108:11
that yes there like there was a thought
108:15
beneath that initial surface thought and
108:17
then below that there were you know it’s
108:19
like I was starting to see the buoys
108:21
that you were referring to I mean I
108:22
wasn’t looking at them very closely but
108:26
at least I could see what you were
108:28
pointing to but you know then I was
108:33
trying to see it from the that non doer
108:39
ship but I realized what I was doing was
108:43
as I was sort of remembering certain
108:46
events and feeling the feelings that I
108:48
was just saying okay but you’re not the
108:50
doer you were not to do but really the
108:54
you know because my understanding of
108:56
Nandu ership has not gone deeply enough
108:58
it didn’t feel like it was dislodging
109:02
and he I mean so that release that you
109:03
were talking about I felt was not really
109:06
happening and so you know if we’re doing
109:12
this without having fully had that
109:15
dislodging of the doer belief then what
109:19
is the best way I guess
109:21
my initial question was like am I should
109:23
I go back to these certain events and
109:27
see step by step how I was not the doer
109:29
or how do I bring in these
109:31
so the firstly I mean if you do if that
109:36
investigation happens in meditation then
109:38
it’s a happening and that’s great but so
109:41
but it’s not the place or the type of
109:45
feeling that I was necessarily referring
109:47
to and I talked about allowing the
109:49
feeling to develop um you know those
109:53
days when or something some day where
109:56
suddenly you just feel so heavy with an
109:59
emotion where it feels like you just
110:02
need to cry or you need to shout or um
110:06
and it can start off feeling just heavy
110:09
but nothing doesn’t want to there’s no
110:11
outlet for it so there the times when
110:15
and so sitting in meditation to do the
110:18
feeling of this emotion is not ideal you
110:20
actually want to because meditation will
110:23
calm it possibly calm it down
110:25
so really you just want to surrender to
110:27
the feeling which means it wants you to
110:29
curl up on your bed let’s say um and
110:34
feel it while you’re curled up in your
110:37
bed in the fetal position funnily enough
110:40
is what it make wants you to feel and
110:46
then you can feel the feeling and start
110:49
to express it so meditation is not great
110:51
because it’s not the greatest place to
110:53
start expressing these things and when
110:59
you’re feeling it there isn’t no job to
111:02
do of saying you’re not a doer even when
111:05
you’re expressing the feelings
111:07
the feelings are going to be of real
111:10
whatever’s in there a huge charge and it
111:13
could be sad this could be hate hatred
111:14
it could be shame and you don’t have a
111:16
job while that’s coming out to say but
111:18
I’m not the doer you weren’t a doer then
111:19
you know you don’t have that job to do
111:22
you just allow the feelings to come out
111:24
and half during there’s either a
111:30
witnessing of it which is the Nandu
111:33
ership principle at play which doesn’t
111:36
need to be mental so while this is
111:38
coming out there’s a part of you that
111:39
might be going wow this is intense
111:41
not necessarily with a thought that says
111:44
wow this is intense but just watching it
111:47
as intense feeling and the watching not
111:51
a thought watching just awareness
111:53
watching is an intense feeling and if it
111:57
doesn’t happen during the understanding
112:01
might we’ll be there afterwards that
112:04
says wow that was an amazing intense
112:07
amount of feeling and in it there was
112:09
all this doership
112:10
about this event and just the simple
112:16
afterwards watching it as intense energy
112:19
is already an understanding of Nandu
112:21
OSHA the the understanding that just
112:25
watched it as energy because the non
112:27
understanding of Nandu should afterwards
112:30
would say I hate that person and just
112:34
like what the energy was saying and the
112:36
fact that you go wow or that look at
112:37
that energy that was inside based on an
112:41
interpretation that’s Nandu show so you
112:44
don’t need to think anything so then
112:49
that’s just elaborating on that process
112:52
of feeling in meditation what you
112:55
suggested that started happening where
112:58
you even just an uncomfortableness about
113:01
sitting in meditation whatever if an
113:04
investigation happens like you described
113:07
I think that’s great because it starts
113:08
to reveal things it’s it’s a slightly
113:11
different methodology or not method
113:14
always a different process to the one of
113:16
the emotional release it might mean that
113:18
at some point you actually have to stand
113:20
up
113:21
of meditation because you’ve hit onto
113:24
something and you feel like if I’m
113:27
really gonna feel this I need to be in
113:29
my room
113:32
it was um because I could sense that
113:36
okay this is not the appropriate time to
113:39
be doing this but at the same time just
113:42
seeing that this feeling contained these
113:47
thoughts and other feelings was very
113:51
helpful
113:53
but yeah I also felt like I was not
113:55
ready to hmm yeah look at things very
114:00
that quickly yeah just a last hint for
114:04
meditation which we because meditation
114:06
where it becomes uncomfortable is
114:08
usually when the thinking kicks in and
114:10
you know the idea that there’s 10 more
114:12
minutes they were just the thoughts kick
114:14
in like no I needed to end now 10
114:16
minutes is I think and there’s all this
114:19
fighting in our head an awareness on
114:24
what we assume is the back of our
114:26
eyelids you can just flick us into this
114:30
presence because once all the thinking
114:32
starts in meditation that means we can’t
114:34
sit still and the body is hurting it
114:38
really means that we’re not present with
114:41
the formless space which is much closer
114:45
to who we are and we’re in the thinking
114:50
is happening and so if we recognize a
114:53
restlessness and an unacceptability of
114:57
the situation it’s usually unacceptable
114:59
because certain thoughts of center stage
115:01
and as soon as we bring awareness to the
115:06
vast open space which we might think is
115:09
the back of the eyelids for a second and
115:11
we go to there and then something we to
115:18
flip down we can actually feel a flip
115:22
and it starts to become clear what the
115:25
realm the spectrum of thinking is and
115:28
that there is this field outside of the
115:31
spectrum of thinking so remembering to
115:34
bring attention to the back of your
115:36
eyelids that remembering happens and see
115:40
the difference
115:56
so this is the last chance if there’s
115:58
any questions or comments
116:24
one if this
116:42
so what is this uncomfortable feeling
116:45
comes up when you’re not able to explore
116:48
it fully maybe you are somewhere else
116:51
you’re not at home or even if you are at
116:55
home then there’s something else that
116:58
needs you are interrupted or something
117:01
else that needs to be done so what
117:05
happens then well what will happen is
117:08
one of two things either the body’s
117:09
normal defense mechanism will kick in
117:12
place and says this is not helpful and
117:16
it’ll find a distraction or a
117:19
suppression for the uncomfortableness or
117:22
it tries to do that and the
117:24
uncomfortableness still remains but it
117:25
remains at a level that maybe you can do
117:28
what you’re doing and sometimes it isn’t
117:33
appropriate you’re in a circumstance
117:35
that needs your attention on the
117:37
circumstance it’s not appropriate to
117:39
feel these feelings to go into it it’s
117:41
just not a time to do it
117:43
um or something else happens where you
117:47
say okay it really feels like it’s at
117:51
the intensity and I can start to feel
117:55
this in a way that it can start to
117:57
express like I really I feel fragile
118:00
fragile is a good word actually for when
118:02
these emotions are ready to be expressed
118:04
where you really feel fragile and if you
118:08
feel it like that it’s great to go into
118:10
a place where your defense mechanisms
118:13
from being fragile where the makeit
118:16
defense mechanisms that keep us from
118:18
being fragile don’t need to function to
118:21
go into a room or something and then
118:22
you’re allowed to be fragile
118:24
which means allowed to feel this this
118:26
feeling arise um and if it’s you can’t
118:31
go to this place it’s quite place
118:34
there’s an intermediate thing is just
118:37
you just feel what can be felt
118:39
appropriately in the place you’re at and
118:42
just ask yourself what is this feeling
118:45
and go down one layer and if you go down
118:49
a layer which really means putting your
118:51
finger on the fact that it’s a sense of
118:52
abandonment
118:54
or a sense of not being listened to or
118:57
not appreciated and you put the right
119:00
word onto it not being listened to and
119:02
it’s suddenly that’s it right you don’t
119:06
need to go any further if the moment is
119:10
inappropriate to go further but the fact
119:12
that in the space you’ve gone down a
119:14
level and you’ve realized all the theme
119:16
is not being good enough or abandonment
119:20
or whatever that’s a great insight maybe
119:27
I I never wrote them down I tended to
119:31
remember what the theme was once you
119:32
know the theme your blueprint then
119:35
whenever you’re feeling an
119:36
uncomfortableness you can put overlay
119:40
your theme onto it and it’s probably
119:42
what the uncomfortableness is you
119:45
overlay the theme that you already know
119:46
is your blueprint and it will bring it
119:49
up it’ll may allow it to flower more if
119:52
you don’t know what your blueprint is
119:54
and you’re just starting to discover
119:56
what your blueprint is blueprint meaning
119:58
what your particular form of
120:03
uncomfortableness is which we often
120:06
don’t know in much detail but we start
120:09
to see it by certain patterns repeating
120:11
itself and how we felt when it was
120:15
really intense in certain patterns if
120:17
you remember how you felt the day that a
120:20
relationship didn’t work out for examine
120:23
tense feeling and what was in it right
120:26
that that’s part of your blueprint and
120:28
then when you start feeling this
120:32
uncomfortableness if you can remember
120:33
that’s how I felt and you can start by
120:35
trying to apply that word to the feeling
120:38
you might realize that’s it
120:40
so at first you might write down the
120:43
particular look of your pattern and at
120:48
some point you end up knowing it well
120:50
enough and you also learn that anger
120:54
aggression is actually linked to lack of
120:57
self-worth deeper down you know if we
121:00
don’t feel good enough deep down when
121:04
someone criticizes us
121:07
which is them saying you’re not good
121:09
enough that criticism is received by the
121:13
part of us that actually doubts ourself
121:15
the part that does feel like I’m not
121:18
good enough so someone has told me I’m
121:21
not good enough and a particular way
121:25
that it man of can manifest is to defend
121:27
and attack back and justify why you’re
121:29
good enough and really we justify why
121:32
we’re good enough because deep down we
121:35
also don’t feel we’re good enough so we
121:38
might start to see that aggression which
121:41
doesn’t at all seem sometimes like it
121:43
comes from lack of self-worth actually
121:46
comes from lack of self-worth then we
121:50
can also see different that lack of
121:52
self-worth if someone criticizes us
121:54
might not in a particular case might not
121:57
manifest as aggression or defense it
122:01
might manifest as intense insecurity or
122:05
guilt or shame because as soon as they
122:08
say you’re not good enough the doubt
122:12
that we have inside says yes I know I’m
122:15
not good enough you don’t need to tell
122:17
me or you have told me and now I agree
122:20
with you and we express it as or we feel
122:24
it as this worthlessness so we can see
122:29
that the lack of self-worth kennix can
122:33
express in different forms and so
122:36
eventually we start to understand this
122:38
patterning much much better than we do
122:40
when we’re not familiar with these
122:43
feelings

More details: HabitatForThoughts.com >>> Book appointment >>> email@holger.us >>> (831) 275-0747