Roger Castillo – Satsang – See it for yourself

 

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by the intellect so I’m trying not to
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use you know complex words actually I
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don’t know how to use complex words this
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is about practical simple daily living
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so there’s a bonus in there and if the
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intellect here’s what I’m saying the
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intellect having been newly conditioned
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with new information
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hopefully starts to observe the dynamics
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that are being pointed out for itself
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so seeing certain external and internal
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movements and feelings and hopefully
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recognizing them based on the
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descriptions that are put forward here
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if the intellect investigates for itself
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and finds that nothing that’s being said
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actually holds true then after enough
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investigation if you become convinced
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that what is being said doesn’t hold
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true I’d move on to something else
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but if the concepts do prove themselves
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as being accurate based on your own
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investigation so this means the task if
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there’s a task it turns out not to be a
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task that you have to do but a task that
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naturally happens once we’ve received
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more information we can’t help but see
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life in line or out of line with the
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information so the task if there’s a
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task is to do the investigation for
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yourself to actually look on the level
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of life that is being pointed on and if
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the concepts get ticked I mean if you
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see yes that concept holds true it makes
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sense then it gets a tick next to it and
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as the intellectual understanding gets
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ticked off more and more regularly based
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on your own observation of life the
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understanding automatically goes deeper
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and deeper it really means that you get
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to see something that you didn’t see
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before and before seeing it it made
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sense that
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you wouldn’t really know whether it was
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true or not so if someone said hey do
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you know that the lift works a certain
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way and if you haven’t observed it you
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might go well I’ll have to take your
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word for it
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as you start observing the mechanics of
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the lift if it’s observable and you
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start to see what the person was
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pointing out hey you know the lift works
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by a process of wires and motors and
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what have you if you if you happen to be
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able to see that through the cracks in
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the door and as the lifts going up you
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see the wires something you might not
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have noticed before
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you get a tick next to it and say yes
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I’ve seen based on my own investigation
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that there are pulleys and wires and
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things inside the shaft of the lift and
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so then next time if someone says I’ve
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got no idea how a lift works do you know
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how it works
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you’d say actually based on my own
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observation I can tell you that there is
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a whole lot of wires and pulleys inside
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the shaft that pulls the lift up firming
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this is a sort of silly example it’s
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evident more or less to us based on
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having watched movies and seen inside of
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a lift shaft etc we sort of think well
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that you know it’s just an example of
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something we may not be familiar with
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and then as our attention lands on it we
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become familiar with something we
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weren’t previously and then we can speak
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confidently about it based on not a
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concept or a belief that someone else
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has given us but are looking for
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ourselves and so the concept I started
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with is what the talks are about is
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actually what human humans are really
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looking for whether we realize it or not
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what I mean by whether we realize it or
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not is there’s a strange phenomena that
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it has covered up an understanding of
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what we’re really looking for and that
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strange phenomena is this notion I
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mentioned of what the feeling of
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uncomfortableness informs us it informs
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us that we’re looking for outcomes but
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something is wrong in circumstance and
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when circumstance is improved so this
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concept is saying hey if you think
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you’re looking for something else if you
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think you’re seeking for something else
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if you’re seeking to become a better
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person if you’re seeking to be able to
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help help others that’s what you might
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think actually the only reason I’m
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seeking is to become a better help to
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others that’s a delusion that life has
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put in place that is preventing us from
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actually becoming clear intellectually
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about what we’re looking for so what the
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human being is really looking for
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whether they realize it or not is
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happiness and daily living and if we
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don’t come to recognize that for
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ourselves meaning if we don’t go past
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the ingrained beliefs that say otherwise
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but say what I’m really looking for is
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this or that or that
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then our seeking will continue to be
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diluted our focus will be diluted
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and one of the phenomena that prevents
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freedom which equates with happiness so
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when I use freedom it’s really freedom
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from beliefs freedom from suffering one
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of the phenomena that prevents freedom
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is a whole lot of deeply ingrained
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beliefs and so and those beliefs will
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drive us in certain directions they’ll
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make us function a particular way and so
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this point is hopped on like someone
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might say come on already you’ve you’ve
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you’ve told us we’re looking for
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happiness let’s get on with it it’s it’s
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it’s emphasized in every single talk
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it’s the starting point ask ourselves
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this very important question what am I
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really looking for if I find myself as a
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seeker it makes sense to ask at some
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point actually hopefully the sooner the
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better
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a very practical practical question what
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am I really looking for and not
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necessarily run with the first answer
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that comes to mind because that first
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answer is probably what life has
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conditioned us to believe um actually
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maybe don’t stop till you come to this
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answer and the answer is you know what
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if I’m really honest if I put down all
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of my concepts all of my beliefs
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everything that I’ve been told by
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society about what enlightenment is or
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what the purpose of life is I find that
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I’ve been doing everything in life
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because I think it’s going to make me
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happy and when we start seeking if we’re
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really honest we say I’m seeking because
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I think that when the seeking end
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everything’s going to be okay and the
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real time we get this the answer to this
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question is not one with feelings sort
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of stable and fine because that’s when
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the ideology about what we think we’re
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looking for
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can actually seem accurate we might have
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the best of intentions actually but I
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want to help people and so the answer
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comes up is now I really genuinely
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believe I want to help people and so
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that’s what I’m seeking I’m seeking to
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be a bigger help in life to people
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actually if we look at it why we might
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want to help people so deeply it could
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be coming from this sense of lack often
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the if we go right down to the core of
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the sense of lack it’s the sense of not
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being worthy not being good enough not
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being lovable and then when life unfolds
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and the other does things that sort of
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confirm
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well they don’t it doesn’t really
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confirm it if the other does things that
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is painful not in line with our
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preferences then we take it as
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confirmation it feels personal and we
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sort of feel even more that I’m not
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worthy and we want to be loved by the
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other so an idea of wanting to help
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others can actually come from an
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imagination that if I can help people in
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a really deep way then they’re bound to
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love me I’m gonna be loved by a lot of
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people and guess what that’s my
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happiness that’s the belief if I help
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people they can’t help but love me and
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my happiness is to be found in love from
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the other that’s what that uncomfortable
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feeling inside is telling us so
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hopefully at some point especially when
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so as I was saying if we if we answer
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this question when we’re feeling
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relatively balances ideology you might
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come up
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when we’re really feeling lost and
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uncomfortable that’s when the true
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answer might present itself because
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that’s our unhappiness that
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uncomfortable feeling is our unhappiness
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when we might not know what happiness is
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so if we want to know what happiness is
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it could be a good place to start from
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those times when we can put our hand on
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our heart and say in this moment I’m not
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happy it’s not a concept in this moment
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I know that I’m not happy I’m not
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talking about this moment I’m talking
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about some moment when you can go OK in
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this moment based on how I feel I am not
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happy and then if we look at that we’ll
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find that it’s a form of suffering as
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it’s described in this teaching and then
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if we’re really honest it will say
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actually I just want this feeling to not
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be here I just want to be happy that’s
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when I say it is it true when you’re
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feeling like that I’m and you can put
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your hand on your heart and say I’m not
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happy is it true that you just want to
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help bubbles actually the truth is I
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just want this feeling to go away and so
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if we find ourselves in the
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flip-flopping stage of spiritual seeking
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which happens when the understanding has
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gone deep and we start finding for
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ourself that there are moments extended
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periods even of a peace with life a flow
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a sense that actually you’re not in
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resistance to life where things feel
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relatively or radically different to
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what you’re used to in the past and the
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flip-flopping is where that’s present
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and then it sort of dissolves and we
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feel like we’ve regressed back and any
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understanding which in the periods of
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flip when we feel peace if as I’ve got
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it I see life clearly I see that
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let’s say what the other is doing is not
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personal and I see that these painful
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situations not an attack on Who I am
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so we can find ourselves being
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relatively okay with circumstance we
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thought this is really strange you know
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that would have really annoyed me some
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time back and we find that we’re ok with
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it and then the flop is where that
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understanding seems to go out the window
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we feel like we’ve regressed back like
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I’ve lost any understanding and the
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smallest of things tends to aggravate us
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and one of the biggest benefits of that
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flip-flopping is that it gives us an
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opportunity to confirm for ourself based
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on our own experience only if the
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intellect sort of lands on the make up
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of the contrast between the two so we
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can go through this flip-flopping for
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many years and not actually register
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what I’m talking about but if the
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intellect lands on it and it sees the
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contrast between the periods of peace
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and then when the suffering comes back
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that’s when we can see from our own
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experience not a concept like actually I
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just want this uncomfortableness to end
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I know what the uncomfortableness the
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absence of the uncomfortableness feels
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like my circumstance hasn’t suddenly
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radically changed I haven’t turned into
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a millionaire or got a job promotion
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that I’ve been waiting for for a long
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time I just found myself okay with life
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as it is and then the fluff happens and
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we’re not okay with life as it is so
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that’s where we can start to see it’s
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not circumstantial it’s attitudinal and
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clearly we’re not in control of that
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attitude because one minute out of the
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blue we find wow this is really strange
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I’m my attitude is such that life isn’t
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resisted and in the next day the
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attitude has changed
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and we can you know say I’ve got to
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change my attitude back and it doesn’t
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change back until it changes back
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because we’re not the ones dictating our
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relationship to life we’re not in
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control of what happens in each moment
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including our attitude but the point
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here is not so show us that we’re not in
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control it’s intranets a useful thing
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when the big things and remember I said
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test it out from your own experience so
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you’re not just following a concept that
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someone has said the concept is what
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we’re looking for is happiness and
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happiness is the end of suffering the
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flip-flopping shows us the two side by
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side that’s when we can put our hands up
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in the air like exclaim actually
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joyfully in a way and say I can truly
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say that I’m not looking for a radical
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change in my circumstance that’s what I
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often believe to be what I’m looking for
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but I see that yesterday I just found
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that life was acceptable and now it’s
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not and what I’m looking for is this
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resistance to life this
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uncomfortableness what I’m calling
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suffering to fall away
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so once we become clear on that really
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clear based on our own appreciation of
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the fact then focus our attention when
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seeking when contemplating can become
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really narrow and focused we don’t
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necessarily need to contemplate the
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nature of the unmanifest for example if
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we’ve heard about some concept that
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talks about the unmanifest and it says
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that prior to consciousness you are the
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unmanifest maybe that’s not so important
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if what we’re looking for is happiness
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and daily living it might be but as we
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go through the explanations we’ll find
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actually it’s not so important because
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we’re looking for the end of suffering
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and when we look at it in practical
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terms suffering arises in five fairly
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specific forms guilt blame pride we put
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a dividing line there and then the other
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half is worry and anxiety fear you could
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put in there expectation and attachment
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to outcomes so why I’ve put a dividing
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line there is actually overall
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overriding these five forms of suffering
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we when we look at them we could say
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they’re all different forms of the
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belief in personal due ership which
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turns out to be the underlying belief
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that life has put in place that is
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erroneous a full side year of who we are
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and so the reason it’s split that under
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that umbrella of what we can call do
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ership there are two subset beliefs
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one is personal doership and the other
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is attachment to outcomes
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so the overall umbrella of these beliefs
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we can call doer ship and then
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underneath that there’s personal doer
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ship and attachment to outcomes so when
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we look at guilt blame and pride we find
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that it’s a movement it’s an attitude to
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what has happened as a result of what I
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did in life for what the other did in
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life guilt blame and pride and it’s
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attitudinal it arises when an outcome
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happens as a result of my functioning or
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the others functioning and usually it’s
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to do with negative outcomes outcomes
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that are painful to me or someone that I
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care about and painful outcomes are by
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default painful when the circumstance is
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out of line with my biological
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preference part of my biological makeup
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that I didn’t put in place so that’s a
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way that we can understand what
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determines whether something is
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pleasurable or painful it’s simply a
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result of the biological entity being
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exposed to a circumstance and that
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circumstance which is not in our control
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is either going to be in line with our
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preferences or out of line with our
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preferences if it’s in line with our
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preferences its pleasure if it’s out of
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line with our preferences it’s pain the
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suffering is an attitude to what is
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happening in the flow of life meaning an
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attitude to the pleasure or pain and the
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flow of life and the suffering in the
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form of guilt blame and pride is based
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on this attitude or belief that I am the
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doer of everything that happens through
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me that I am a separate independent
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entity
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in control of everything that I think
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that I feel that I say and that I do and
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if we see ourself that way then we see
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the other in the same way as a separate
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independent entity in control of
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everything that they think feel say and
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do the belief dictates that that’s how I
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see myself in each moment and that’s how
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I see the other so the blame is a result
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of that belief the other delivers pain I
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see them as the doer I say you should
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have you could have done it differently
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you hurt me so I hate you the hate you
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is I blame you for doing what you did
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that delivered pain to me or someone
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that I love and I’ll carry that story of
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blame for a long time possibly based on
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how important the pain was how
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significant it seemed and clearly
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certain pain is far more intense than
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other pain so if you you know someone
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eats your fruit it’s not in line with
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your preferences if someone were to you
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know burn your house down the pain of
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those two events is significantly
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different and so the intensity of the
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pain can sometimes determine how long
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and how intense the suffering and the
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hatred is but actually the hatred the
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blame is only there because of the
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attitude of personal doership it’s not
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there because of the the pain itself
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that’s the really good news because if
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our suffering was actually a result of
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circumstance then we would require some
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magic to happen somewhere along the line
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where life was magically pleasure
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pleasure pleasure pleasure pleasure
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so it would mean that my happiness is
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determined and reliant on life one day
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becoming pleasure pleasure pleasure
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pleasure and a simple objective looking
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at the flow of life makes it very clear
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that the flow of life is not in my
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control and clearly sometimes pleasure
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and sometimes pain I’m going to get sick
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from time to time people I love are
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going to get sick people I love are
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going to die people that I love are
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going to decide that they want to move
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in a different direction things that I
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own are going to get old and break
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people are going to steal things I’m
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going to get old and break the body so
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no matter how we try to control life we
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can see based on our own experience that
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it’s uncontrollable so the good news
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really good news is that our happiness
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is attitudinal and not circumstantial it
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means life doesn’t have to change if it
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was circumstantial basically we should
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hang our boots up and say actually I’m
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not seeking anymore because this
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happiness that I’m seeking is
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unavailable the nature of the flow of
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life is pleasure sometimes of pain and
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others and therefore if my happiness is
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based on life being pleasure pleasure
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pleasure pleasure
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I just have to admit I have to accept
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that happiness for the human being is
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not available in this life that would be
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the conclusion so this is the great news
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is my happiness and suffering is always
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attitudinal and not circumstantial so
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what it requires is for life to change
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the attitude the belief that life has
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put in place that is the basis of our
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attitude of do ership and attachment to
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outcome
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and so if we investigate this belief in
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do ship and attachment to outcome if we
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came to the conclusion actually this
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belief in doer ship an attachment to
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outcome is valid it’s accurate then we
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better hang our boots up again and say
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happiness isn’t available in life but
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when we look at the basis of the belief
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in doership and the attitude and
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doership the attitude remember i’m
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saying is the attitude which sees the
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other as the doer and myself as the door
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therefore when the other delivers pain I
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have to hate them when I deliver an
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outcome that is painful I have to hate
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myself feel guilt and shame and
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similarly when seeing myself as a doer
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if I perform a task and the outcome is
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positive then I have to feel pride look
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what I achieved look how good I am and
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pride feels less uncomfortable than
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suffering in fact some people would say
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pride feels good when you really start
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to feel in and see its connection to the
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other forms of suffering and see that
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pride creates a sense of superiority and
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inferiority then we’ll start to see
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actually that’s not a positive thing
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we’ll start to feel into the sense of
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pride and see it’s very much linked to
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the more dense forms of suffering so if
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we investigate this notion of personal
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do assure that life is ingrained in us
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and see if it’s accurate see if it’s
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true from two different perspectives we
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can start to see it’s not true if life
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creates a shift in perspective what we
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could call an awakening and awakening
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experience then from that awakening
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perspective
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that witnessing perspective impersonal
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witnessing not the witnessing that a
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body does of external objects that would
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be more akin to what I would call
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observing but if an awakening happens
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then what tends to happen is the subject
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in that experience changes quality and
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it becomes apparent that the body is not
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really the subject in a way that shift
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blows that consciousness the center of
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consciousness out of its centric Ness
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with the body for a while and from that
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point of view it sort of demonstrates
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that what I am is not part of the flow
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of life what I am is observing
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witnessing the flow of life happening
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and it doesn’t require any intellect
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it’s demonstrated first hand directly
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experientially now the problem with
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these awakenings can be that we can have
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that direct shift in consciousness and
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the intellect might not even recognize
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the implications of this shift meaning
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the beliefs of personal doership remain
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ingrained even though experientially
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life is being seen quite differently
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life is being seen to be a happening and
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the body which previously was heavily
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identified with as being the subject and
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the doer of everything is seen to be
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functioning much more mechanically in
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life sort of it’s an object that is
29:00
moving in line with the complete
29:03
movement of the flow of life
29:06
and from that perspective life can be
29:13
more peaceful because there’s less
29:15
involvement in what is happening
29:18
experientially when that witnessing is
29:21
happening without us needing to
29:23
conceptualize anything the attachment
29:28
and the identification breaks away and
29:31
so the suffering ceases when that
29:35
witnessing is pronounced but a phenomena
29:40
that happens is that we tend to find
29:43
ourselves coming in and out of that
29:45
witnessing where the witnessing stops
29:51
and there’s a centric nurse back into
29:55
the body and an attachment with what is
29:57
happening again and if the intellect
30:01
hasn’t taken cue from that witnessing
30:07
perspective then the beliefs in doer
30:11
ship hadn’t been dissolved and the
30:14
suffering continues to arise and that’s
30:17
another reason of this flip-flopping
30:19
happening because the belief in doer
30:22
ship hasn’t been dissolved even though
30:24
we find ourselves having experiences of
30:27
witnessing life as a happening now that
30:33
can sound like I’d better get one of
30:35
these experiences or shifts so that life
30:41
can be known to be a happening and not
30:47
my doing and it’s not necessary there’s
30:53
many different ways that the process of
30:59
transformation can happen the process
31:03
essentially is a process of dissolving
31:06
these ingrained beliefs and the
31:09
witnessing or the peak experiences the
31:13
awakening is one way that life can start
31:18
to demonstrate that fact
31:20
times we can get put over importance in
31:25
that experience because those
31:27
experiences when they happen have a
31:29
sense of oneness non-separation reveal
31:34
that what I am in essence is
31:36
consciousness or awareness not the body
31:39
and it’s exactly what a lot of top-down
31:43
beautiful profound teachings are talking
31:48
about and so when the experience happens
31:51
it makes sense that we say aha this is
31:55
it this is the shift that so many
31:58
masters have spoken about it’s the shift
32:02
that so many masters are pointing at
32:04
witnessing and not only witnessing but
32:10
this talk about oneness and so then it’s
32:17
assumed if that happens or if it hasn’t
32:20
happened if it happens we say this is it
32:22
and then when it fades away we wait for
32:25
it to come back let me say so one day
32:27
when the process is finished that
32:29
experience that decentralized witnessing
32:33
of life will come back and stay forever
32:36
and if it hasn’t happened we might have
32:39
heard descriptions about it and
32:42
descriptions that talk about its
32:44
importance in a way what I described as
32:47
seeing everything as a happening don’t
32:49
you and we become fixated with saying
32:51
well this is what needs to happen for me
32:53
the process can take a different path it
32:57
can take a path of allowing the doucher
33:00
to an unfold without a very pronounced
33:06
awakening experience liberation isn’t
33:10
about a oneness experience it’s not even
33:15
about the realization of oneness and
33:21
because that realization can be a
33:24
significant step along the way sometimes
33:26
it’s pointed at as being about that in
33:29
the scriptures there is a very
33:32
useful pointer this is don’t mistake
33:36
understanding for realization and don’t
33:40
mistake realization for liberation the
33:44
awakening is akin with realization it is
33:48
a recognition of what the core of the
33:51
human being is awareness consciousness
33:53
in such a way that that core moves to
33:59
center stage whereas it was more
34:03
integrated previously and therefore not
34:06
seen so the awakening experience sort of
34:10
demonstrates that and it also
34:11
demonstrates that life is just a
34:13
happening unfolding in personally not my
34:16
doing and not the others doing that’s
34:20
the realization don’t mistake
34:21
realization for liberation liberation is
34:25
not that state of oneness although there
34:28
is a liberation quality in it because in
34:30
that state of oneness and witnessing the
34:32
peace is there and so because the peace
34:37
is there in that form and sometimes it’s
34:39
the first time that we’ve experienced
34:40
peace which there are so they’re
34:44
synonymous with each other but what if
34:46
peace can be available without that
34:48
oneness experience being prevalent and
34:51
in fact that’s what the liberation in my
34:56
experience is it’s a movement away from
35:01
impersonal witnessing of life such that
35:06
the movement is to come back to living
35:09
as Raja as the human being frankly so
35:18
much so that you start to question what
35:22
that experience actually proved for a
35:26
while we might say that it proved a
35:30
whole lot of things it proved that life
35:31
is a dream all arising in consciousness
35:35
made of consciousness and that there’s
35:38
nothing outside of consciousness
35:43
and that can be part of the movement
35:46
from realization to liberation at some
35:51
point we have to we find that even that
35:55
notion is questioned did it really prove
35:57
that or was it a shift in consciousness
36:04
could it have been a shift of the body’s
36:06
consciousness such that the world life
36:15
was experienced differently
36:16
qualitatively differently qualitatively
36:20
differently accompanied by a certain
36:22
story of what that qualitative shift
36:24
meant and then we believe that story and
36:28
the reason is that so the teachings are
36:32
there to undo mistakes and not the truth
36:38
the teachings themselves tell us that
36:41
don’t mistake the finger pointing at the
36:44
moon for the moon itself don’t believe
36:49
what I have to say so in this teaching
36:51
it’s made really a you know clear and
36:56
simple this is whatever is put forward
36:57
is a concept whatever anyone in history
37:02
has put forward as a concept no one has
37:05
ever uttered a word of truth the only
37:09
truth in the manifestation is the
37:11
impersonal sense of I am so that means
37:16
that what the Vedas say well the Bible
37:20
says or the most enlightened human being
37:25
is a pointer and it’s not necessarily
37:29
true
37:30
sometimes the teachings require us to
37:32
take it as true in order to move down
37:36
the process and then something will
37:43
happen that will get us to question
37:45
whether I’m interpreting it properly
37:51
maybe I’m interpreting it
37:56
to rigidly and Ramana is teaching
38:02
addresses this dynamic this phenomena
38:05
that happens whereby a spiritual
38:07
teaching progresses us down a path so
38:12
it’s very valuable but then the teaching
38:14
itself tends to become embedded as a new
38:18
belief system and so in this analogy
38:22
that I’m or this saying which is an
38:24
analogy the thorn represents a concept a
38:29
spiritual concept well any concept but
38:32
you’ll see in one context it refers to a
38:35
spiritual concept and when the thorn is
38:38
embedded in the thumb it refers to a
38:40
concept that has been turned into a
38:43
belief a concept that has been grabbed
38:46
hold of too enthusiastically too rigidly
38:49
and set in place as a belief so Ramana
38:53
pointed out because of a recognition
38:57
that this phenomena is bound to happen
38:59
it’s the way humans function until we
39:02
are changed enough we function by
39:09
turning what we’re told into beliefs we
39:12
don’t recognize the relativity of things
39:14
easily and so we turn them into
39:18
something we relate to them as though
39:20
there’s something absolute but so much
39:22
of life nearly all of life is relative
39:25
and we don’t relate to it as relative if
39:29
we relate to it as absolute so the
39:32
saying is don’t you know use this thorn
39:35
to remove the thorn which is embedded in
39:37
your thumb so use this spiritual concept
39:39
to remove the belief that has been put
39:42
in place but then be sure to throw both
39:46
thorns away implying that what is likely
39:50
to happen or what can easily happen is
39:52
that second thorn that is a concept used
39:56
to uproot the first thorn can become
39:59
embedded in your thumb itself as a new
40:02
belief
40:05
so liberation is not a state of oneness
40:09
but rather the culmination the
40:12
implications that are revealed because
40:15
of that Awakening and then once that has
40:17
been revealed sufficiently the state can
40:21
come back to being one that is centric
40:25
in the body the witnessing in its
40:28
pronounced way actually fades away and
40:31
if we don’t understand what’s happening
40:33
we think that the fading away is a loss
40:34
I’ve lost something I have to get it
40:37
back and then all the efforts are there
40:41
to try and get us to have this
40:44
continuous state of consciousness that
40:47
is experientially revealing a oneness
40:53
experientially revealing that what the
40:56
subject is is consciousness and so we
41:01
convinced it’s about that state what if
41:08
that state can fade away and you can
41:11
find yourself at peace then we’d say
41:15
well actually why do I need that state
41:17
what we’re really looking for is
41:19
happiness for the human being happiness
41:21
in daily living which is simply the end
41:23
of suffering
41:36
so all of this because I said we can
41:39
start to investigate this notion of do
41:41
shop two ways one from a shift in
41:46
consciousness that may or may not happen
41:48
well if it doesn’t happen we can’t but
41:50
if it does happen we can verify it from
41:52
that shift that happens verify that life
41:57
is a happening a flow and that I am NOT
42:00
the doer and the other isn’t the doer
42:01
the body is then seen to be an object
42:03
functioning automatically not because I
42:06
make it function because in that state
42:08
what I am is simply witnessing not doing
42:12
and the body continues to function
42:13
automatically the other way is for us to
42:19
observe life by using some conceptual
42:24
pointers and see whether the belief in
42:30
personal doership still holds true when
42:32
we start seeing the human being a little
42:36
differently based on some pointers
42:38
pointers that don’t require a shift in
42:40
consciousness don’t require an
42:42
experiential shift of experience they
42:45
just require us to apply some critical
42:48
thinking which in itself in time will
42:56
start to create a witnessing in a much
42:59
more subtle sense in life because the
43:03
concepts will relegate the biological
43:07
and psychological movements of the body
43:09
into a category that is seen to be
43:12
automatic functioning which is very
43:17
different to how we’ve felt ourself to
43:20
be we’ve felt that we are the
43:23
controller’s of the words coming out of
43:24
our mouth and so if we get a concept
43:29
that says actually the human being in
43:32
any moment is one way is shaped exists
43:40
one way meaning that there are unique
43:43
instrument in that moment
43:46
and the human instrument the body and
43:50
the mind is based on two factors the
43:53
genes and up-to-date-conditioning so the
43:56
genetic structure or genes refers to how
43:59
the body grows the blood type the
44:03
strength of the heart or the weakness of
44:05
the heart the IQ the capacity of the
44:11
eyes to function at very high standards
44:15
or not all of that even down to
44:20
temperament of being irritable or
44:22
patient all of that can be categorized
44:27
as part of the genetics and when we look
44:32
at it we see that the body comes into
44:35
existence when the sperm and egg come
44:37
together and the next day that forms a
44:39
single unit and that unit grows and so
44:44
the body on a genetic level is a result
44:47
of growth not a result of me doing
44:50
anything and at a certain point the the
44:56
body’s the heart gets to a point where
44:58
it starts functioning and the brain gets
45:01
apart a point where it starts working
45:03
and then and we’re born and on it goes
45:06
the body keeps growing and how it grows
45:10
not my doing
45:12
it happens and as soon as the body
45:17
starts growing it starts being
45:19
influenced by external factors what we
45:22
can call new conditioning in each moment
45:25
and that new conditioning never stops in
45:31
each moment we’re being we’re receiving
45:34
new conditioning so Ramesh used to say
45:38
and so much of what I share is the
45:40
teaching that Ramesh used to put forward
45:43
Ramesh uses a make no mistake what is
45:46
being delivered here is simply new
45:49
conditioning the concepts are life
45:53
delivering new conditioning
45:57
now we often have this idea that
46:00
conditioning is the problem and we might
46:03
have this idea actually I want to be
46:04
deep conditioned why am I here being
46:07
receiving more conditioning that’s a a
46:12
fairly rudimentary concept that the
46:16
problem is conditioning actually the
46:17
problem is conditioning but the problem
46:19
is not all conditioning the human body
46:23
is a conditioned instrument so we know
46:26
how to eat with a knife and fork because
46:29
of conditioning we know how to drive a
46:30
car because of conditioning we know how
46:32
to speak because of conditioning we know
46:33
how to do mathematics because of
46:34
conditioning we know how to interact
46:36
well or not so well with others because
46:38
of conditioning if we actually got what
46:42
we prayed for if we prayed for please
46:44
decondition me we would be in a lot of
46:47
trouble because we wouldn’t be able to
46:49
function in life at all so it’s very
46:54
important to see that the conditioning
46:57
that is a problem is a very specific
46:59
type of conditioning this conditioning
47:01
that I’m referring to as the belief in
47:03
personal doership and attachment to
47:06
outcomes so the body the human in each
47:09
moment is essentially one way based on
47:14
these two factors their genes and their
47:16
up-to-date-conditioning that I and you
47:19
are never in control of so you came to
47:24
the talk today and you didn’t know what
47:27
I was going to talk about specifically
47:29
exactly frankly I didn’t know exactly
47:31
what I was going to talk about and if a
47:34
bird flies across la vista that’s not
47:37
something we’re in control of and it can
47:39
become part of our it is part of our new
47:41
conditioning we might see a bird we’ve
47:43
never seen before it’s new conditioning
47:45
and that’s happening all the time in
47:48
life and so if we start to see the human
47:52
being as an instrument designed by or
47:56
created up to a certain point in time
47:58
shaped by life based on these two
48:00
factors genes and
48:01
up-to-date-conditioning two factors I
48:05
haven’t been in control of and therefore
48:07
in a particular moment I find myself in
48:09
a circumstance
48:10
that I’m not in control of and we can
48:13
equate it to the example of two
48:16
chemicals coming together that each
48:18
chemical has its chemical composition
48:20
that it didn’t choose and when the two
48:23
chemicals come together there’s a
48:24
reaction it might be an inert reaction
48:28
or a violent reaction or something in
48:29
between and it’s not personal it’s not
48:33
that the two chemicals didn’t sit down
48:34
and have a conference how are we going
48:36
to react or one chemical didn’t think
48:40
how I’m gonna it just happens based on
48:42
the makeup in that moment in the
48:43
circumstance and so the human being is
48:46
like a very complex version unique
48:49
complex version of these chemicals and
48:51
we find ourselves in situations in
48:53
circumstance we find ourselves
48:55
interacting with other humans that are
48:58
shaped by life up to that very moment
49:01
genes and up-to-date-conditioning so our
49:03
up-to-date-conditioning is the
49:05
cumulative effect of all of the new
49:07
conditioning that we receive in each
49:09
moment and so our
49:10
up-to-date-conditioning is continually
49:12
changing never the same and so certain
49:17
new conditioning can radically change
49:20
our up-to-date-conditioning so these
49:25
concepts that are putting forward it’s
49:27
fair to say they’re not what we
49:28
generally hear out on the street in life
49:32
so it’s new conditioning that could
49:35
radically change the existing
49:37
conditioning it’s actually that’s simple
49:45
even if we have an awake an awakening
49:47
experience that demonstrates certain
49:49
things if what is demonstrated doesn’t
49:53
actually sink down and uproot the
49:57
beliefs in personal Durer ship an
49:58
attachment to outcome what happens is
50:00
you’ll find someone who would say I had
50:03
this most I had an awakening experience
50:04
I have awoken back in 1997 no doubt I
50:10
had an awakening experience and yet I
50:13
find myself what twenty years later
50:17
still suffer
50:20
they might not even recognize em and
50:22
they might think that the shift and the
50:27
recognition that this is all a dream
50:29
which I’m not saying it is from that
50:31
perspective it could be supported that
50:33
it’s a dream arising in consciousness
50:38
and they might be fixated still on a
50:43
returning of that awakening experience
50:45
which is probably why twenty years later
50:47
they’re still finding themselves living
50:50
life suffering waiting for that
50:53
awakening experience to come back to
50:56
happen thinking that when it happens
50:58
then everything’s going to be okay so my
51:02
point is that if the awakening
51:03
experience happens it can be a way that
51:06
the ingrained beliefs get uprooted or it
51:09
can happen in the ingrained beliefs
51:10
don’t get uprooted the important part is
51:12
not the awakening but that it uproots
51:14
the beliefs and so if you can uproot the
51:18
beliefs not you but if life can uproot
51:20
the beliefs a different way who cares
51:22
about an awakening experience it’s an
51:28
important point you have a question yeah
51:33
okay good well actually if people have a
51:37
question there’s a microphone and for
51:38
the sake of the recording if you can
51:40
speak into the microphone there’s a
51:41
little button halfway down if you hold
51:44
it for a second or two the green light
51:46
will come on and when you’re finished
51:48
you can turn it off again so if anyone
51:51
I’ve given the principles now of the
51:53
teaching the framework if I open up for
51:56
questions before the framework we might
51:59
end up talking about all sorts of things
52:01
that get clarified with the framework
52:03
um so anyone who has a question you’re
52:08
welcome to ask it so if we go back to
52:13
the investigation of the human being as
52:16
being an instrument in each moment that
52:18
is shaped by life according to genes and
52:21
up-to-date-conditioning as we so we can
52:23
understand that intellectually hopefully
52:26
and then as we contemplate it more and
52:30
more
52:31
and at the same time living life so you
52:34
don’t have to go into a monastery or
52:37
anything like that this is the beauty of
52:41
some seeking is you can just it happens
52:45
while you’re living your life doing
52:47
whatever you need to do day to day so if
52:51
you find yourself living life ordinarily
52:54
and attention and the working mind so
52:57
I’m speaking to the working mind at the
52:59
moment the part of the mind that is not
53:01
being told to do anything what I’m
53:04
putting forward and not prescriptions
53:06
for you to achieve they’re just
53:07
descriptions of dynamics and those
53:10
descriptions become part of the working
53:13
mind and if they become part of the
53:17
working mind then the working mind has
53:22
the predisposition to start seeing a
53:25
dynamic in life that it hasn’t seen
53:27
before it might see a reaction that
53:30
happens in the body mind organism and it
53:34
will ask could it be that this is based
53:37
on how I am in this moment and that how
53:40
I am in this moment is not my doing
53:44
I didn’t control how I am in this moment
53:47
could it be could it be that it’s simply
53:51
a result of my genetic makeup and how I
53:55
grow and then and how life has affected
53:59
me the family I was born into the
54:01
religious beliefs the political
54:03
situation the school I went or the
54:05
friends I made the rules I was told to
54:09
follow the values that were instilled in
54:13
me the events and circumstances that
54:18
happen and as these reactions happen we
54:23
might start to see that they’re not in
54:26
my control they happen much more
54:28
automatically than I’ve given credit to
54:31
in the past and I might see that yes I’m
54:34
judging that person for I don’t know not
54:40
wearing shoes or for eating with their
54:44
mouths open
54:45
because of the conditioning that I
54:47
received at home and had I received
54:50
different conditioning at home I may not
54:54
well I would be different and I may not
54:56
judge that person for eating with their
54:59
mouths open and so this isn’t about this
55:03
is simply about seeing a dynamic going
55:05
wide it’s it’s not bad oh I should stop
55:07
judging the person for eating with their
55:11
mouth open this is about seeing a
55:13
dynamic guy I don’t I’m not interested
55:15
in being a perfect human being I’m just
55:17
interested in seeing the dynamic of life
55:19
the dynamic of the movements that happen
55:22
through me that I was convinced were my
55:25
doing what might start to happen which
55:30
is a form of witnessing is that we start
55:33
to relate to words that are coming out
55:37
of the body feelings that are arising
55:39
the body as a feeling arising in a body
55:42
mind organism not a concept where we say
55:44
oh that’s a feeling arising in a body
55:47
mind organism but if we actually find
55:49
that there is a watching which can
55:57
happen if the movement is seemed to be
56:02
automatic mechanical not my doing as it
56:07
seemed more and more that way then the
56:10
strange thing is that the movements in
56:12
the body can start to be witnessed
56:14
just like the movements in the other
56:16
person then will start to be seen as a
56:19
happening and not their doing we might
56:22
start to see the mechanics of two people
56:25
having an argument and witnessing life
56:31
like that a bit like when you witness a
56:35
tree moving you see it as physics or
56:40
nature and this witnessing of everything
56:47
happening as a happening in a body mind
56:50
organism not not everything but all of
56:53
the feelings all of the emotions even
56:55
the suffering the suffering that arises
56:58
which is based on our genes and
57:00
up-to-date-conditioning so it’s not
57:01
about setting an objective of oh I heard
57:05
that happiness for the human being is
57:07
the end of suffering and so now I am
57:10
going to achieve the end of suffering
57:11
that would be the doer ship belief that
57:14
is convinced it is what is controlling
57:17
life kicking into place what we’re
57:20
talking about here is witnessing or
57:22
recognizing everything that happens in
57:26
the body including the suffering as a
57:30
happening not my doing and if we realize
57:33
it’s a happening I didn’t create it then
57:35
it’s not my job to get rid of it if I
57:39
think it’s my job to get rid of it what
57:41
happens is we’re missing the very fact
57:46
of how things happen so this isn’t to
57:50
say that I witness suffering as a
57:53
happening and then it doesn’t change the
57:58
very movement the very movement away
58:01
from the belief in personal do assure is
58:04
change and ruin what I’m suggesting is
58:12
I’m talking to the working mind the
58:15
other distinction of mind is what we
58:19
could call the thinking mind the
58:23
thinking mind is the part of the mind
58:24
that creates all the suffering all of
58:27
the resistance all of the guilts the
58:29
blame the pride the expectation and the
58:32
attachment to outcomes and the worry and
58:33
the anxiety that part of the mind is the
58:38
attitude to life that creates suffering
58:41
so if we see that life is continued
58:45
continually conditioning the thinking
58:47
mind and the working mind then we might
58:49
come to appreciate that I’m not telling
58:51
anyone to do anything I’m just throwing
58:55
out concepts that I’m destined to throw
59:00
out based on my genes and
59:02
up-to-date-conditioning in the
59:03
circumstance I find myself in
59:07
and those concepts land or they don’t
59:12
land not in your control not in my
59:14
control and then as a result of the new
59:17
makeup of the body which is mechanical
59:20
automatic the thinking happens according
59:23
to the new makeup so the witnessing of a
59:27
feeling arising as a happening in the
59:31
body mind organism it’s not something
59:33
you do it’s something that happens based
59:36
on your makeup in that moment and if
59:40
suffering arises suffering is arising
59:44
because of your makeup in that moment
59:46
and if the working mind understands this
59:50
principle then it will witness the
59:54
suffering as a happening not insists
59:58
that the suffering be gone that would be
60:01
what the thinking mind will do the
60:04
thinking mind is the part of the mind
60:07
that has been conditioned to resist life
60:10
that is unpleasant or uncomfortable
60:14
thinking that it is in control of life
60:16
that it can determine how life is the
60:19
thinking mind believes life should be a
60:21
certain way so that’s expectation so if
60:26
the working mind gets conditioned
60:28
appropriate it starts to see the
60:30
thinking mind in action which is
60:31
suffering hopefully it actually then
60:34
understands actually this can’t be
60:36
different it’s my makeup in this
60:39
particular moment functioning
60:46
and the very recognition of this is
60:50
change it’s changed from the obsession
60:56
with personal doership and control and
60:58
life to now life having brought about
61:02
sufficient new conditioning for the body
61:05
to function differently for the mind to
61:07
function differently and that shift
61:11
means that the suffering that arises
61:13
will probably be less intense because
61:16
there is some understanding and the
61:20
understanding is it’s not even so much a
61:23
mental understanding it starts off as a
61:26
intellectual understanding as new
61:28
conditioning in the working mind in the
61:29
end it turns out to be just a natural
61:33
witnessing the new conditioning starts
61:38
to cut off the old conditioning and what
61:41
it leaves is a natural witnessing of
61:44
life so this freedom this peace of mind
61:50
isn’t a conceptual piece of mind what it
61:55
is is recognizing that suffering is
61:57
conceptual suffering is an attitude to
62:01
what’s happening in the flow of life
62:02
based on an error the process brings in
62:07
new conditioning on the level of mind
62:12
that new conditioning starts to see the
62:18
existing conditioning as inaccurate and
62:21
starts to cut it off and once it cuts it
62:25
off it too falls away so we find moments
62:28
of stillness and quiet that are not a
62:35
stillness of thinking it’s a stillness
62:40
of the quietening of thinking
62:47
the quietening of the thinking mind and
62:51
at times when the working mind isn’t
62:53
required even the working mind stops and
62:56
there’s a being a recognition are what I
62:59
am is here prior to thinking and what I
63:06
am is actually complete and peaceful in
63:16
this moment what seemed to be a problem
63:19
the thinking mind that was creating a
63:22
story about what it meant that the other
63:24
person did this and what it means that
63:26
you know I didn’t get the job promotion
63:29
all of that story might start to be seen
63:33
as the functioning of the thinking mind
63:35
it might get cut off quicker and quicker
63:38
based on the working mind popping up
63:40
saying something like actually your
63:41
happiness isn’t to be found in a
63:42
circumstance that cuts off the thinking
63:46
mind and then the working mind itself
63:48
can stop and we find ourselves
63:53
remembering in a sense you could say
63:55
remembering Who I am of my core and
63:59
having a smile come over I say because
64:02
we realized oh it’s quiet it’s peaceful
64:04
it was just that story that was the
64:07
uncomfortableness and then
64:09
experientially we start seeing that my
64:12
happiness is not dependent on
64:13
circumstance
64:14
the circumstance remains more or less
64:17
the same as the circumstance when the
64:19
story was functioning maybe you lost
64:22
your job you didn’t get the promotion
64:24
whichever it was that’s the circumstance
64:26
that hasn’t magically changed the story
64:28
which is your attitude to the
64:30
circumstance was very uncomfortable if
64:32
the working mind and awareness
64:34
recognized this uncomfortable story and
64:37
recognized it as do a ship and
64:40
attachment to outcome and the thought
64:42
arises my happiness simply isn’t to be
64:45
found in circumstance
64:50
based on previous experience the
64:54
previous experience could be when we
64:55
dropped into being and remembered
64:58
ourself and smile then Oh Here I am
65:02
circumstance as it was uh Here I am and
65:05
the more that that happens the more
65:09
confirmation we get that my happiness
65:11
isn’t to be found in circumstance so
65:14
then the thought that arise my happiness
65:16
isn’t to be found in circumstance isn’t
65:18
just a concept it’s it’s something that
65:21
has been confirmed based on our own
65:23
experience so we end up remembering
65:27
ourself remembering where we are at home
65:30
much more frequently and going there and
65:35
what we find is a demonstration that I
65:38
am complete I am unaffected at my core
65:43
by circumstance and the same can happen
65:47
if I found myself blaming the other as
65:50
the doer or being too critical on
65:53
something that I did that delivered a
65:55
negative outcome so guilt or shame the
65:58
thought might arise
66:00
you’re not the doer and the others not
66:01
the doer and we remember come back it’s
66:05
just that thought the working mind is
66:08
just a reminder to come back to being so
66:11
it becomes the bookend of the thinking
66:16
mind the thinking is saying you know I
66:18
hate them for what they did they’ve
66:19
attacked me
66:20
they’ve diminished Who I am I’m never
66:23
going to forgive them and then awareness
66:26
and the work in mind recognize that
66:27
story and the thought is your happiness
66:29
isn’t to be found and outcomes and
66:31
they’re not the doer it’s just a
66:33
reminder to come back here I am
66:44
and the working mind isn’t an
66:48
interference with this piece once we end
66:51
up being grounded in being because we’ve
66:54
remembered and gone back there enough
66:56
times and actually dropped from the head
66:59
to the heart the center of consciousness
67:02
actually it’s a good exercise to imagine
67:06
it to visualize it as dropping down from
67:08
the head into the chest area just like
67:14
gravity is pulling it down it’s quite
67:16
happy to go there it’s attack it’s home
67:19
but with the belief in doer ship and
67:22
expectation we doesn’t make sense to
67:25
rest in being because if I’m resting and
67:27
being well I’m not using my thinking
67:29
mind that wants to control so I’d better
67:33
that’s a waste of time to be in being
67:35
from the perspective the thing in mind
67:37
so we’re always in our head so to allow
67:40
the center of consciousness to just
67:42
gravitate down into the heart an open
67:47
gaze soft open gaze can accompany that
67:51
and the mind tends to quieten down and
67:55
if we find ourselves resting in this
67:58
being we can find that we can still
68:01
think using the working mind the
68:06
functional mind so we could still answer
68:09
a question that someone asks but remain
68:12
grounded in the heart and that means
68:16
that we answer the question and the
68:19
movement is witnessed as a happening and
68:24
it doesn’t disturb our being so the idea
68:29
that peace of mind is the end of
68:31
thinking is over simplistic peace of
68:36
mind is the end of the thinking of the
68:38
thinking mind the working mind is going
68:40
to be very much needed in order to work
68:43
out a whole lot of things in life what
68:45
groceries to buy when you go to the shop
68:47
how much money to take on holiday with
68:50
you even deciding whether you should
68:52
change your money at that exchange place
68:56
or wait till you get to the
68:57
the place to get a better exchange rate
68:59
all of those can be functional thinking
69:03
as long as we’re not attached to the
69:05
outcomes understanding that the outcome
69:10
finally is not in my control if I decide
69:12
to wait to change money on a different
69:16
exchange place I may not end up with a
69:20
better result so if I understand the
69:24
outcome is not in my control
69:27
then that’s the functional thinking of
69:31
the thinking mind of the working mind
69:32
the thinking mind is very attached to
69:34
outcomes so if it doesn’t get what it
69:37
wants it sees that as an attack rather
69:41
than just pleasure or pain in the moment
70:07
and you might start to see that this is
70:12
a radical but simple shift in how we see
70:18
life how we see ourselves essentially
70:21
it’s the falling away of the full
70:23
self-image the incorrect self-image that
70:25
says I am the doer and that what I am is
70:31
essentially just a physical entity that
70:33
requires pleasure instead of pain that
70:36
is added to based on receiving pleasure
70:39
and attacked based on life delivering
70:44
pain that’s the false self image and so
70:51
what’s being pointed out here is a
70:53
radical different different way of very
70:56
simple just Nandu ership and non
70:58
attachment and why is it emphasized
71:05
because what we’re looking for is
71:08
happiness in daily living
71:10
happiness is peace of mind peace of mind
71:14
is the end of suffering suffering arises
71:17
in practical terms in the form of guilt
71:19
blame and pride worry anxiety
71:21
expectation attachment to outcome based
71:24
on the belief I’m the doer and the other
71:26
is the doer guilt blame and pride based
71:28
on the belief that my happiness is to be
71:31
found and outcomes worry and anxiety
71:34
expectation and attachment to outcome if
71:38
those deeply ingrained beliefs get
71:42
uprooted the basis on which guilt blame
71:45
and pride is not there and so that error
71:50
which life put in place as part of this
71:54
story of evolution then if that gets
72:01
dissolved in the suffering isn’t there
72:02
the error gets dissolved in the
72:04
subsequent error the expression of the
72:06
error falls away that’s why we’ve been
72:10
told for thousands of years
72:13
enlightenment is available it’s actually
72:17
our birthright what that means our
72:20
birthright means that
72:21
enlightenment which in practical terms
72:23
is happiness in daily living the end of
72:26
suffering is the very nature of the core
72:31
of the human being so no human being has
72:34
been born with anything missing anything
72:39
that is required for liberation that
72:42
they don’t have every human being at its
72:46
core has consciousness and the reason
72:51
that we can be happy in life is because
72:53
the core of the human being is untouched
72:56
by circumstance and it’s self contenting
73:00
self fulfilling complete and that it’s
73:04
cool there’s the sense of I am I exist
73:07
an awareness of the moment and it’s
73:12
actually this innate sense of existence
73:15
that’s what we come back to all the time
73:18
that’s why we end up being happening
73:20
we’re not happy because I will always
73:23
exist for a while I thought that the
73:26
happiness was there because our what I
73:28
am will always exist even death won’t
73:33
touch it
73:34
I don’t know that death won’t eliminate
73:41
the consciousness that is present right
73:45
now what I know is the consciousness is
73:48
present right now and what it turns out
73:51
is that the core of the human being the
73:54
consciousness is self content with its
73:57
existence right now it isn’t self
74:01
content because it will exist tomorrow
74:03
it really doesn’t care about its
74:05
existence tomorrow what it is self
74:10
content with is its existence now I am I
74:14
exist now so if we found ourselves in
74:17
really unfortunate circumstance accused
74:19
of a crime within commit sentenced to
74:23
life imprisonment what is being put
74:27
forward here is saying that in theory
74:31
our happiness is still available
74:35
even given that life circumstance why I
74:38
say in theory is because in practice if
74:41
the belief in personal doership an
74:43
attachment to outcome is still in place
74:45
there’s going to be all sorts of
74:47
resistance to what has happened all
74:51
sorts of blame towards society and the
74:55
individuals involved in the in the
74:57
accusations and the conviction guilt
75:01
maybe for what we failed to do at
75:04
certain points in our defence and
75:10
expectation about how life should look
75:12
in order for me to be happy and so then
75:16
with that set of beliefs that identity
75:20
it’s a recipe for disaster disaster if
75:23
we’ve been condemned to life in prison
75:25
which is going to be a whole lot more
75:27
pain than living life here but frankly
75:30
if those beliefs are in place it’s a
75:32
recipe for disaster if we find ourself
75:34
in daily living outside of prison as
75:37
well because life is not going to unfold
75:41
as we expect it to unfold it’s not going
75:43
to be pleasure pleasure pleasure
75:44
pleasure the other is going to deliver
75:46
pain we’re going to still be the same
75:48
imperfect human beings that don’t get
75:50
everything right so the freedom
75:54
regardless of your circumstance comes
75:56
from this shifting in attitude and it’s
75:59
not our doing and it’s not something
76:03
that I said okay I’m going to shift my
76:05
attitude that’s the doer ship coming
76:08
back in again but there’s no reason to
76:13
be pessimistic because this is what
76:15
Ramesh would often say the even though
76:18
you’re not the doer even though the life
76:19
is we could say a predetermined story a
76:22
creation unfolding moment after moment
76:24
after moment exactly as its destined to
76:26
unfold and freedom from suffering will
76:31
be there when it’s destined to be there
76:33
not a moment before our moment after so
76:36
it’s not you that can create a shift in
76:39
attitude life creates the shift in
76:42
attitude and we might hear this thing ah
76:43
this is terrible news this is very sad
76:46
and when we look at the circumstance
76:49
would say no need to be pessimistic life
76:51
has put you in this situation right now
76:55
not you you didn’t put yourself in this
76:57
situation as the doer but as a result of
77:00
circumstance and your genes and
77:02
up-to-date-conditioning a whole lot of
77:03
feelings and thoughts arose that drove
77:08
you to be here listening to a set of
77:12
concepts that life is throwing out
77:17
concepts that you’re not generally
77:20
exposed to concepts that are
77:23
specifically aimed at highlighting the
77:27
dynamic of life specifically relative to
77:30
this question of human happiness and
77:32
pointing out the dynamics of human
77:34
unhappiness that’s how life brings about
77:37
the change
77:37
so in fact Ramesh used to joke around
77:41
and say in a way we’re gods favorites
78:08
I’ll keep talking if no one asked a
78:11
question okay great
78:18
right at the back full started basically
78:34
as I understand Oh what I hear is that
78:40
acceptance and surrender both will be
78:42
necessary whatever life throws at you
78:45
you have to accept but with an
78:48
understanding and not with helplessness
78:51
or I think our commitment is to
78:54
surrender into the unfolding of whatever
78:58
is happening in life that commitment
79:01
should be there to surrender into the
79:03
unfolding of the life I share an eye
79:07
opening which happened this morning only
79:09
I am coming from Mumbai so I was a I was
79:15
at the station in the waiting room and I
79:19
thought that I loved some peace of mind
79:21
because you know there were about 40
79:22
people in the waiting room they were all
79:23
very quiet it was early in the morning
79:25
at about 6:30 6:45 as I took my seat I
79:29
saw that there was a person and against
79:34
the judgment immediately comes that is
79:38
mentally challenged and he was abusing
79:42
speaking he was the only one who was
79:44
doing all this the rest about 30 people
79:46
were all required nobody doing anything
79:50
and I started looking at my own feelings
79:54
at that time and I realized that I
79:57
didn’t not out I had also sort of an
80:03
empathy for the person I mean filling
80:07
that poor thing you know he doesn’t know
80:09
what he’s speaking but the irritation
80:13
was there so that’s basically suffering
80:15
as as I understand now this is one
80:21
situation
80:22
when circumstances have thrown something
80:24
I mean I was not knowing while I was
80:26
walking into that waiting room that this
80:28
will happen and no sooner I got out of
80:32
the waiting room I felt again very quiet
80:34
even though there was a bustling Mumbai
80:37
railway station but still I felt very
80:39
quiet so every time one has to be aware
80:44
of what is happening within himself is
80:48
it necessary not not as a prescription
80:53
not as a practice not as something you
80:56
have to work hard at it’s something that
80:59
can start to happen as we become more
81:03
and more aware of the various dynamics
81:07
so actually it becomes something happens
81:10
spontaneously so if we approach this as
81:15
a practice that I have to become very
81:17
good at I have to remain aware all the
81:19
time then that in itself is the doer
81:23
principle the achiever the one
81:27
practicing and so if we recognize that
81:33
movement and see it as the doer and
81:37
relaxed it’s like if if you if you don’t
81:41
find yourself aware it’s not your doing
81:43
so you relax and the understanding of
81:47
this actually means you are more aware
81:48
because the doer has relaxed who the
81:53
doer thinks it’s doing it’s helpful it’s
81:56
functioning because it believes this is
81:58
how I’m going to get somewhere in life
82:00
if I just relax then you know of course
82:05
nothing is going to happen
82:06
it’s the non that’s not recognizing how
82:09
life actually unfolds you get taken
82:13
through life even if you stop trying to
82:18
control what you find is the body still
82:21
functions biologically and moves in a
82:24
particular direction according to its
82:27
makeup but now without the attitudinal
82:30
insistence on where it moves and
82:33
what life looks like so often if I talk
82:38
about the falling away of the attitude
82:40
of attachment to outcomes the question
82:42
could be so if I don’t have this
82:44
attitude of attachment outcomes how am I
82:46
going to function in life and it’s a
82:49
good question it just simply comes
82:51
because we haven’t recognized that when
82:53
the attitude falls away there’s still
82:55
the biological makeup which is what
82:58
moves us through life and there’s a
83:00
great intelligence in that biological
83:02
makeup one I mean whatever you said last
83:06
the great intelligence it seems to be
83:09
operating because I had some few
83:10
experiences very few experiences
83:15
suddenly if I have to tackle a situation
83:17
and there are a lot of advice is coming
83:20
from left and right that you should
83:21
address like this you should speak like
83:23
this and I don’t think about it I say
83:28
whatever is going to happen let us see
83:30
of course I keep on listening to all of
83:32
them it is not that I do not listen to
83:34
them and suddenly when I go there and
83:37
something comes out and that something
83:40
is actually much better than what I
83:43
would have prepared and thought and done
83:45
yeah and it tremendously surprised me
83:49
and at that point in time I felt that
83:53
there is a greater intelligence which is
83:56
working then the intelligence or
84:01
whatever you call it yeah that’s the
84:03
unintelligence that is trying to control
84:05
in a sense so these these happens when
84:08
you surrender does it happen that way no
84:12
not surrender with an idea that we
84:13
should happen that’s right that’s the
84:15
one that’s not is that is not the
84:16
purpose that’s manipulation right yeah
84:18
yeah that is manipulation right yeah but
84:20
if if I if it happens in Hindi we call
84:25
it Sahaj sort of a thing which happens
84:27
automatically and then these kind of
84:32
experiences may reinforce that you
84:37
should surrender to whatever it is not
84:40
that you don’t prepare it is not that
84:41
you don’t do
84:42
but whatever is to happen will happen
84:44
and don’t worry about what is going to
84:46
happen yes that was the central point
84:50
there that’s right it’s my job is to
84:53
just go address talk and see whatever
84:56
comes out comes out yes and the
84:58
intelligence actually it’s not such a
85:00
mystery it’s based on your genes and
85:03
up-to-date-conditioning your biological
85:04
genes and up-to-date-conditioning
85:06
started management and you’ve had 50
85:09
years experience in the field of
85:11
management that’s the intelligent that
85:14
comes out when you get asked the
85:17
question if and if you’ve surrendered
85:20
your thinking mind actually it I want to
85:23
make a point about what you said about
85:25
surrender and acceptance if that
85:27
surrender has happened the surrender of
85:30
the thinking mind that is worried about
85:33
controlling your answer and controlling
85:36
how people perceive you if that
85:38
surrender has happened what we find is
85:41
that the intelligence that is your
85:44
biological makeup functions really well
85:47
in life as you said much more
85:49
efficiently than with the added
85:52
interference of the shoulds insurance
85:55
this is the biological and genetic
85:59
conditioning response which is coming
86:02
out that’s a fantastic new concept for
86:08
me yeah but it makes sense yeah
86:12
there is there is some aspect of our
86:15
movement that seems to be much more
86:17
mystical as well sometimes we find
86:20
ourselves speaking in a way that we have
86:23
no experience of speaking of before and
86:26
we wonder where did this come from and
86:29
so once again I would still say that’s
86:32
part of your genes and
86:33
up-to-date-conditioning but maybe
86:34
something that was locked away a long
86:36
time ago
86:37
maybe there is past life influenced is
86:41
it possible of a collective
86:42
consciousness yes there is something
86:44
there yeah why not but still I would
86:51
describe it as your genes and
86:53
up-to-date-conditioning and the
86:54
collective
86:55
consciousness effectively is part of
86:58
your up-to-date-conditioning because
86:59
it’s part of a data bank that is
87:01
available to you so we don’t need to
87:04
believe in one thing or another in past
87:07
lives or collective consciousness we
87:09
just say actually what happens as a
87:11
result of my genes and
87:13
up-to-date-conditioning and we have a
87:15
broad openness as to what all of that
87:17
could be what it could be influenced by
87:20
but as long as we understand but I’m not
87:24
in control of that those two factors and
87:28
is a great as we surrender and you start
87:31
to see the intelligence the
87:33
effectiveness of how the body functions
87:35
the intelligence of the absence of the
87:39
resistance and the hatred and the guilt
87:41
then with the the old idea that I have
87:45
to control life gets weaker and weaker
87:47
and weaker and then the surrender of the
87:51
thinking mind makes more and more sense
87:53
because we see from experience that the
87:56
thinking mind so I don’t know if I just
87:59
said the surrender of the work no I
88:00
meant the surrender of the thinking mind
88:02
makes more and more sense because we see
88:04
that it doesn’t add the value we thought
88:06
it added one one thing is becoming very
88:10
clear from what you said is that at that
88:13
point in time just now I’m thinking
88:14
about it at that point in time I had no
88:18
judgment about the people who to who I’m
88:20
going to address I had no I mean I have
88:24
preconceived motion because I knew all
88:26
of them but at that point in time I said
88:28
no it’s open let them speak let them let
88:32
me speak and let us see how it comes out
88:34
whatever and it went on beautifully well
88:39
I mean it was one of the experiences
88:42
that I would cherish for quite some time
88:45
yeah so what you’re saying is correct
88:48
that that that present notions of
88:52
attachment of hate of dislike not hate
88:55
but dislike they were not there all
88:59
right
88:59
yeah so what you are saying by let’s
89:01
just let the let’s see what the outcome
89:03
is that’s another way when you look at
89:05
it it’s really dropping your attachment
89:07
to outcome at each
89:09
you’re saying I’ll leave that in God’s
89:12
hands you know and we’ve seen in the in
89:15
the bug vegeto of all over the places
89:18
you have actions but you are not
89:21
responsible for the fruits of your
89:23
actions and so that really means that’s
89:27
act in each moment and see what happens
89:30
thank you just two points quickly on
89:36
what you said about surrender and
89:38
acceptance because you said I am what
89:40
I’m hearing is you need to we need to
89:42
surrender and accept at the very
89:46
beginning and an important point is here
89:48
I’m not telling someone to surrender or
89:50
accept if you were to take that on as a
89:54
mission it’s a problem surrender and
89:57
acceptance are always something that
89:59
happened to you you get surrendered
90:02
right you can’t do surrendering and
90:06
acceptance also something you can’t do
90:08
acceptance is simply what is there when
90:11
non acceptance doesn’t arise so if we
90:14
try to I must accept we’re not
90:18
recognizing that no acceptance is simply
90:20
the absence of non acceptance it’s not a
90:23
doing it’s the space that is naturally
90:26
there when non acceptance doesn’t happen
90:28
and the other point is that when you
90:31
were in the waiting room and this person
90:36
was making noise and you said there was
90:39
irritability that irritability could
90:43
quite easily be a biological reaction
90:47
and not necessarily suffering the
90:50
suffering is what would probably happen
90:52
simultaneous to it which is more of the
90:55
judgment because you can find yourself
90:58
in a situation that
91:00
circumstantially is not in line with
91:02
your preferences and the biological
91:05
reaction to that could be irritation
91:07
lack of patience and as long as it
91:12
seemed to make sense based on the
91:15
circumstance and if we can feel the
91:18
difference between
91:20
biological pain and in that case it
91:25
would fit under the category of
91:26
emotional pain irritation probably which
91:31
is not suffering so if we start to feel
91:33
the difference between just pain without
91:35
suffering a versus the suffering which
91:39
comes in when we find a circumstance
91:42
that is delivering pain and then we
91:43
judge the circumstance as it should be
91:46
different this shouldn’t be happening
91:49
then that’s the suffering on top of the
91:52
irritation which might just be
91:54
biological pain so it requires us to
91:57
become more and more fine-tuned yet
92:04
discerning that’s the word between pain
92:07
in the moment which is biological and
92:09
suffering and so yesterday one of the
92:11
themes was anger and sadness are
92:14
biological reactions not psychological
92:17
reactions so psychological reactions
92:20
mean the thinking mind and suffering and
92:23
anger can arise in a situation if
92:26
someone spills coffee over you yeah the
92:32
idea that we just will not have a
92:36
biological reaction right that we will
92:39
be equanimity on a biological level is a
92:42
misconception because we’re convinced
92:45
that happiness is to be found in
92:47
outcomes sometimes we have this notion
92:50
that fits in and says when I’m
92:52
enlightened I will not have any
92:55
preference and therefore we will imagine
92:59
us to be this essentially equanimity us
93:02
being on a biological level but if
93:06
someone spills coffee on you it’s like
93:07
but that’s going to happen you know
93:09
that’s hot you didn’t want to get your
93:12
suit
93:13
that’s so that first thing could happen
93:16
biologically and we could go ah you know
93:19
even swear right that’s all part of the
93:22
circumstance um at the example sometimes
93:25
I use you parked your car at the
93:27
shopping center you’ve done your
93:28
shopping come back with your car and
93:29
when you turn the corner you see the
93:32
side of your car has being wiped
93:33
by big truck you know the doors are
93:36
squashed in and this notion that there’s
93:40
not going to be a biological reaction
93:41
the imagination that we have the belief
93:44
is a kidney with this demand you come
93:46
around the corner we see our car we keep
93:48
walking we put the shopping in the back
93:51
we go to the door and we try to open it
93:53
pulling it go around the other side
93:56
you know it’s unrealistic is when we
94:00
come around the corner and we see the
94:01
cards like either we’ll start crying or
94:04
start laughing or we’ll start swearing
94:06
but that’s a biological reaction makes
94:09
complete sense based on the circumstance
94:11
the suffering kicks in when the guilt
94:13
you know I knew I shouldn’t have parked
94:15
on this corner I’ve seen other people
94:18
get yeah I shouldn’t have done it I feel
94:20
terrible you know I feel guilt and shame
94:22
or the blame towards the driver that did
94:26
this and he didn’t leave his number or
94:29
anything like that and then seeing that
94:31
now I’m not going to be able to do what
94:33
I wanted to do today and the resistance
94:36
to life being different so that tends to
94:39
be horizontal in time well after the
94:42
biological reaction and so that’s where
94:46
we can start to see that the biological
94:48
reaction is something that isn’t
94:50
suffering and then the psychological
94:53
reaction is an extension of the story
94:56
about what should have happened and
94:57
shouldn’t have happened in time and that
95:01
you know I’m creating this distinction
95:03
between biological and psychological not
95:07
in order for the mind to say our
95:09
biological is okay and psychological is
95:12
not okay that would be once again
95:16
expectation of how life should look that
95:18
life should be without suffering the
95:21
biological and the psychological there’s
95:23
a distinction created but frankly the
95:26
principle on which they arise is exactly
95:28
the same your genes and
95:30
up-to-date-conditioning that you weren’t
95:32
in control of that is in place in a
95:34
particular moment so if suffering arises
95:36
it arises because the belief in personal
95:39
dealership is in place not something you
95:42
put in place not something you’re in
95:44
control of it removing
95:46
it’s a happening and so our attitude at
95:48
some point is needs to be one of
95:51
equanimity with the suffering which
95:56
means equanimity means an acceptance of
95:59
the suffering but it’s not an acceptance
96:02
you do it’s simply the absence of the
96:04
resistance which was based on the false
96:07
understanding that I shouldn’t be
96:09
suffering all of that hi
96:19
my question is with this sense of I am
96:22
so when you say continuous unbroken
96:25
peace of mind in daily living it is my
96:27
experience that it is synonymous with
96:31
abiding in the sense of I am
96:33
irrespective of the circumstance that’s
96:35
what happens here
96:35
and when there’s abiding in the sense of
96:38
I am the attachment to outcomes is
96:41
automatically absent because of the
96:43
completeness and the intrinsic joy that
96:46
is felt in the moment it is like maybe
96:49
something may have may not happen it’s
96:50
it’s not necessary for completeness or
96:53
fulfillment but the the catch here is
96:59
continuous unbroken so it my experience
97:01
is that when there is this sense of I am
97:03
strongly felt as it is in this moment
97:05
then maybe there isn’t the attachment to
97:08
outcomes or even the sense of doer ship
97:10
perhaps but that sense of I am is not
97:14
continuously so there’s a flip flop
97:16
which keeps happening sure right so when
97:20
you just mention prior that the flip
97:22
flop happens between the oneness
97:23
experience and not so oneness experience
97:27
there is a clear distinction there
97:30
between a oneness experience and a sense
97:32
of I am in daily living is what my
97:34
question is true and if the flip flop
97:36
can happen as you said maybe between a
97:38
oneness experience and not so or even
97:41
between having the sense of I am in
97:43
daily living and then losing it
97:44
precisely so the flip flopping is
97:47
actually really the flip flopping is
97:49
about a flip flopping of our attitude
97:51
and the state that delivers the attitude
97:57
is not so important so
97:58
I’m not talking about the flip-flopping
98:00
of the state but more so flip-flopping
98:02
of the attitude and so what you’re
98:05
saying is where you are familiar with
98:07
the sense of I am even without that one
98:10
the sense that is enough to keep us in
98:16
peace so it starts to show us that the
98:19
peace is not directly a result of
98:21
oneness experience and frankly I think
98:26
that a movement into just being where
98:29
you feel the I am is actually the core
98:32
of who I am as a human being
98:34
whereas the oneness experience tends to
98:37
be an experience of life that is much
98:40
less personal and much more impersonal
98:42
so it tends to be an experience that is
98:45
oh I’m not the human being I am
98:46
awareness impersonal awareness of source
98:49
and I I suggested that oneness
98:53
experience is really there to highlight
98:55
the awareness and the consciousness that
98:59
ultimately we find to be the
99:02
consciousness functioning through the
99:03
body which sounds like a regression back
99:06
because people feel like I’m identified
99:09
with the body and then an awakening
99:12
happens and I’m now no longer identified
99:14
with the body but that’s not where the
99:17
movement is meant to stop in my
99:19
experience it comes back from there and
99:23
it then is an integration of a
99:26
recognition of that consciousness or
99:30
awareness whatever word you want to use
99:32
well and say oh that’s the consciousness
99:34
that is functioning through the body
99:36
when I live as Roger it is consciousness
99:40
plus the body that is the Roger
99:42
experience not ever independent of each
99:45
other it’s the combination of the two
99:48
and so the sense of I am where it feels
99:51
like the heart is the the home of I am
99:57
then that’s where we get to live as the
100:00
human being recognizing our core and we
100:04
might even feel that it’s where I’m
100:06
connected to source where I feel how
100:09
what I am is
100:11
in personal consciousness of source
100:13
linked to a particular body mind
100:15
organism functioning through that body
100:17
mind organism as personal consciousness
100:20
the experience you’re having in this
100:21
moment and in this moment that
100:23
experience can include the sense of
100:26
being and I am in it or that can fade
100:30
away and so when it fades away then we
100:33
sort of lose that connection to source
100:35
we lose that connection to the core of
100:37
who we are and suffering can come back
100:40
and so the reference to continuous
100:43
unbroken peace of mind is a reference to
100:46
where the process can end up along the
100:50
way we will find that it’s not
100:52
continuous on broken piece of mind it
100:54
gets broken as this resting and being
100:58
happens more and more and the
101:00
recognition of suffering as being based
101:03
on this these doer ship and attachment
101:06
principles and we start getting our own
101:08
evidence that that’s not how life really
101:10
is means that the connection to source
101:16
or the resting and being remains more
101:20
and more robust until at some point we
101:23
find we look back in time and we think
101:25
ah I haven’t been suffering for 3 weeks
101:29
6 weeks 6 months and then we can
101:32
conclude our it’s happened we don’t even
101:34
know when it happened exactly but we
101:38
find oh my my peace of mind remains
101:40
continuous unbroken regardless of the
101:43
circumstance where as I remember six
101:45
months ago it was flip-flopping and so
101:49
this change can be very gradual and
101:51
that’s why I say you can look back and
101:53
you go actually over the last three
101:55
weeks I haven’t suffered and then if
101:57
that’s three weeks turns into three
101:59
months and then six months then you know
102:02
wow I’m not doing anything I didn’t have
102:04
any great flash that was some special
102:08
moment where everything radically
102:10
changed you might have had awakening
102:12
experiences that were very spontaneous
102:14
and radical but the process of
102:18
deliverance deliverance meaning that
102:19
process after the awakening or after the
102:23
actual realization I simply cannot be
102:25
the doer that process is gradual and it
102:31
could be not so spectacular you just
102:33
look back I’m at peace and we only tend
102:37
that only tends to happen when we become
102:38
very convinced that what we’re really
102:41
looking for is happiness and all of the
102:43
other subtle expectations fall away the
102:45
subtle expectations that sometimes put
102:48
in place by the very teachings that have
102:50
actually progressed us actually not put
102:52
in place by the teachings put in place
102:55
by our relationship our interpretation
102:58
of the teachings so is the continuous
103:01
unbroken peace of mind eventually the
103:03
stabilization of I am and daily living
103:06
where we’d not move away from it
103:08
irrespective of the circumstance yes
103:10
that’s right where it becomes completely
103:14
known that actually this is my home this
103:15
is where when I know myself fully as a
103:18
human being I function in life doing
103:20
exactly what I need to do in each moment
103:22
having disagreements with people
103:24
circumstance missing aeroplanes
103:26
sometimes me not performing as someone
103:30
else would like and yet I remain
103:34
connected and aware of my complete my
103:40
completeness in each moment and can we
103:42
trust that the flip-flopping will
103:45
eventually lead to that because
103:47
sometimes when as I said it fades away
103:50
the only thing that is wanted in that
103:52
moment is for it to come back and rest
103:55
is that yeah so that you can start to
103:58
see is an expectation and it’s more
104:01
suffering so when you recognize that you
104:03
might look there’s expectation more
104:07
suffering
104:07
so the flip-flopping is a great training
104:10
ground that if you’re directed correctly
104:13
allows you to see for yourself really
104:16
see for yourself all of the different
104:18
forms of suffering and what you’re
104:20
really looking for so yes and in time
104:23
according as if destined but why not
104:26
life has taken you that far where the
104:29
flip-flopping means a lot more peace it
104:32
in theory it will end up with continuous
104:35
unbroken piece of my
104:36
not don’t set it up as an objective as
104:38
soon as you set it up as an object
104:39
objective more suffering is bound to
104:41
come in no give ok but Stefan is waiting
104:51
but see the clarifications fine yeah
104:54
it’s you said it’s unbroken sense of I
104:57
am but is it really necessary because
105:00
sometimes there could be like suffering
105:02
I was just bumping my knee against my
105:04
bike while getting on it’s a very sharp
105:06
pain there’s no suffering but that was
105:09
recognized in retrospect but also there
105:11
was no sense of I am in that moment so I
105:14
would say that by default if there’s no
105:16
suffering the recognition of your i
105:22
am-ness is by default there even if it’s
105:25
not a pronounced or even an extinct yeah
105:29
detectable it’s in the background and
105:31
that’s the point is did these certain
105:34
things that come to the foreground the
105:36
sense of I am and the awareness are not
105:39
necessarily destined to stay there
105:42
they’re not meant to it’s meant to be
105:44
there to demonstrate something and then
105:46
when it becomes known it fades into the
105:47
background and ramana points to this my
105:51
interpretation anyway is in his
105:54
reference to a hums for anna the
105:56
bursting forth of i am where the sense
106:00
of I am becomes very clearly recognized
106:02
or you could use the same example as
106:05
referring to the awakening where the
106:08
witnessing becomes and he says that’s
106:11
not the enlightened state even that will
106:13
fade away and sometimes when we’re
106:16
listening to those teachings and they’re
106:18
talking about the absolute we we tend to
106:21
think on it will fade away and I’ll know
106:24
what is prior to I am even more esoteric
106:28
so we read this even that that which has
106:33
burst forth will fade away and the mind
106:36
says it’ll fade away and I’ll know
106:37
something even more profound my
106:41
interpretation is it’s saying this
106:43
witnessing or this
106:48
how palpable palpable sense of I am even
106:53
that can fade away and if it does and
106:56
yet you find yourself not suffering it
106:59
means that the connection is unknown
107:03
always there it’s just automatically
107:05
functioning in the background you don’t
107:06
even know about it except you know that
107:09
it’s happening because suffering isn’t
107:10
arising by inference not by direct
107:12
experience even yes although if you go
107:16
into meditation when you sit down at a
107:18
time when you’re quiet and you close
107:20
your eyes you find that I can it’s
107:24
always there so you can feel it whenever
107:27
you like really if you sit quietly but
107:32
it doesn’t necessarily need to be an
107:34
experiential continuous unbroken sense
107:36
of I am in daily living it’s more about
107:39
the end of the suffering but also if
107:41
there’s some other over an overwhelming
107:43
experience like pain or maybe even
107:44
pleasure then it it may leave less space
107:48
for that as an experience to be
107:49
currently experienced yeah which is not
107:51
important as we’ve said the experiencing
107:54
it yeah so it there are situations where
107:57
the sense of I am gets covered over in
108:00
in experience but the the connection the
108:05
deep connection which might not be
108:07
experiential remains intact so the
108:10
suffering doesn’t arise even when you
108:13
know in like wow that’s a deep pain and
108:16
then it you move on and no suffering
108:20
arises but in that moment of deep pain
108:22
your attention is not on some sense of I
108:25
am and in the same way if you’re talking
108:27
to someone having a conversation your
108:28
attention could be on the conversation
108:30
and not on the sense of I am but if the
108:33
process has made that home of the human
108:38
being familiar enough to you and you’ve
108:40
gone back there over and over again at
108:43
some point we just rest there and it
108:45
doesn’t need to be experienced we’re
108:48
just resting there
108:52
you can since the person’s waiting very
108:55
patiently okay um okay let’s let’s do
109:04
that because we’re actually almost of
109:06
where we’re over time but it’s not a big
109:08
drama actually so you talked about
109:11
biological and psychological pain and I
109:13
just thought about how would you
109:16
describe it with shame that means you
109:19
would tell me now please come here in
109:21
front of the camera and get naked so I
109:23
guess I have would have an uncomfortable
109:25
feeling with myself and even ten minutes
109:27
later I guess the feeling would also be
109:30
still being uncomfortable
109:31
so this is not biological men no I could
109:35
that could be biological yeah there’s no
109:38
reason why you need to be able to do
109:42
certain things in life you know the
109:47
notion that if you have no attachment to
109:49
outcome you can watch your partner
109:51
having sex with someone else
109:52
and if you can’t do that then there’s
109:55
attachment and sorry I don’t buy that
109:58
there can be a biological preference for
110:03
certain things and it doesn’t
110:05
necessarily equate to shame if you found
110:07
yourself strip naked in front of the
110:10
camera you can feel biologically
110:14
uncomfortable and then afterwards if
110:18
there’s a story about your inadequacy or
110:23
what that’s what shame essentially is
110:25
and you know that’s after the event I
110:28
understand
110:29
then it’s more likely to be suffering
110:32
Thanks
110:38
so it’s a it’s a life situation that I
110:43
want to talk about and I need you to
110:45
tell me that how does the how do your
110:48
concepts fit into this situation so
110:54
let’s say life’s been depressing it’s
110:58
been blank it’s been lost you get up
111:02
every morning you have nothing in your
111:05
life to look forward to but then of
111:10
course you just can’t you just can’t
111:13
stay in the bed you gotta get up you
111:15
gotta go face it that’s what daily
111:20
living is right you just you just can’t
111:22
be feeling depressed
111:32
and then you get to work and then and I
111:38
also feel that such songs have oh it
111:40
tends to make you a much softer or
111:42
tender person but when it comes to your
111:45
practical life you got to have thick
111:47
skin excuse my language but then you got
111:50
to be a bitch you got to be strong you
111:53
got to be tough you got to bring the
111:56
other person down you got to be
111:57
manipulative you can’t just sit back
112:00
look at life as a happening and just be
112:04
at peace and have other people leave you
112:07
behind at work hmm okay is it puts them
112:15
more to add okay so if you find yourself
112:21
waking up in the morning with a sense of
112:23
despair hopelessness depression that’s
112:27
saying that is part of the content of
112:32
life in that moment right it’s suffering
112:36
and it doesn’t make life comfortable it
112:40
makes the senses life is very
112:42
uncomfortable some people can’t get out
112:46
of bed with that feeling um and they
112:49
stay in bed and their daily life is
112:51
staying in bed and not functioning very
112:55
much so as you said life can look anyway
113:01
and so it can be that you feel
113:03
uncomfortable and yet there’s a drive to
113:06
get you to work still and when you get
113:09
to work you find that the environment is
113:12
one that’s very competitive people are
113:14
very attached to outcomes and if you
113:17
don’t have the will to fight and compete
113:19
you automatically get left behind so
113:24
that’s just a description of a
113:25
particular work environment and so the
113:30
conclusion in that work environment is I
113:32
have to be tough in order to get
113:37
somewhere in this field so we can see
113:41
that that conclusion can be accurate
113:44
relative to certain
113:45
inch marks certain situations like
113:49
success in this industry requires me to
113:52
be tough and competitive so it’s an you
113:58
could say it’s an accurate assessment it
114:01
might not be but let’s say you’ve really
114:03
seen it it could be an accurate
114:05
assessment in that particular industry
114:07
maybe that’s not the industry to be in
114:11
maybe what keeps us there is this idea
114:14
that I need to succeed and have this
114:17
outcome be successful in that industry
114:20
it could be what keeps you there you
114:23
might find yourself enjoying your work
114:27
better in another industry the idea that
114:35
surrender makes us complacent and
114:38
ineffective is not quite right we can
114:42
surrender and what we were talking about
114:43
before well we get surrendered and yet
114:46
the biological still has its
114:49
intelligence and so if someone is
114:51
overstepping a boundary while you’re
114:53
surrendered it can be hate listen this
114:55
is the third time you’ve done this and I
114:57
just wanted to let you know that I don’t
115:00
think that what you’re doing stepping
115:02
over this boundaries of effective or
115:05
fair so that can happen as a biological
115:10
reaction to the circumstance and from a
115:13
surrendered point of view it will be
115:16
seen as a result of my makeup and the
115:20
circumstance and after that there won’t
115:23
be a blame towards the other for what
115:26
they did or a judgment towards myself
115:29
for whether what I did was a you know
115:32
right or not right it was just a
115:34
happening and if that happens without
115:40
the doer ship energy in it it can
115:46
actually be very effective it can mean
115:50
that you get to function without this
115:54
attachment to outcomes and yet still be
115:57
very appropriately equipped to
115:59
in a particular circumstance so this
116:03
sounds it actually it’s a bit tricky
116:06
because what it sounds like is a
116:07
prescription of how you should act at
116:10
work and it’s not telling you how you
116:14
should act at work it’s a description of
116:16
how we might find ourselves acting at
116:19
work functioning at work but if we find
116:22
ourselves waking up with this
116:23
uncomfortableness which means that
116:26
somewhere in the system the doer ship
116:29
and attachment to outcome is quite
116:31
intense on a subconscious level right
116:37
it’s something that’s been deeply
116:39
ingrained then the attitude at work is
116:44
probably going to be similar to that
116:47
it’s going to come from that same source
116:49
and so if we recognize this description
116:53
of the dynamic as simply a description
116:55
of dynamics then we surrender to the
117:00
fact that okay this is the way I am and
117:05
I can’t actually be different in this
117:11
particular moment feel free to go to
117:15
management courses or anger management
117:18
courses or how to deal with colleagues
117:20
more effectively courses that that might
117:23
actually be new conditioning in life
117:26
that changes the way that you function
117:30
at work but in a particular moment when
117:32
you function in this this particular
117:34
moment then you can say okay this is a
117:36
result of my genes and
117:37
up-to-date-conditioning up to now I
117:40
might decide to go to some workshop that
117:45
might then be new conditioning that gets
117:47
me to function differently so you might
117:49
function differently the next week after
117:51
the workshop but in each moment how you
117:53
function is how you’re destined to
117:55
function and a surrender to that can be
118:00
something very liberating
118:02
because the belief in personal do ship
118:05
simply hasn’t surrendered to our
118:08
shortcomings hasn’t been able to
118:11
surrender to
118:13
um the aspects of ourself that don’t
118:15
deliver pleasure pleasure pleasure and
118:18
for us to hear it’s not your doing
118:22
you’re not the one driving the boat
118:24
you’re not the one dictating the urges
118:27
that come up you’re not the one that
118:28
starts crying at work when everyone else
118:31
is saying – here she goes again crying
118:33
again oh you’re not the one that yells
118:35
at someone in a very aggressive fashion
118:37
that’s a happening according to your
118:40
jeans and up today I mean you are the
118:42
one that does that but it’s not your
118:44
doing you couldn’t function differently
118:46
and so a surrender to that is actually
118:49
compassion to oneself it’s the end of
118:53
judging oneself and it’s a surrendering
118:56
to life looking not the way you want it
119:00
but the way that it’s destined to be in
119:02
this moment no magic answers here except
119:10
the concepts can have an effect
119:32
I’m gonna look for pleasure he’s gonna
119:34
look how to get out of that depression
119:36
but then nothing seems to work out
119:39
mm-hmm so if we can see that my seeking
119:45
for a way out of depression can actually
119:49
be an intensifying of the
119:50
uncomfortableness if we see that that
119:54
the insistence that the depression isn’t
119:57
there so the depression is an
119:58
uncomfortableness it’s not only pain but
120:00
it’s suffering it’s on a level of I feel
120:05
uncomfortable with myself not
120:07
circumstance but with myself and so that
120:14
is what it is it is uncomfortableness if
120:16
we see that the resistance of that the
120:19
movement to insist it’s not there
120:21
actually intensifies that suffering then
120:25
the seeing of it can be what allows a
120:28
surrender which says okay the suffering
120:31
is here but I’m not going to intensify
120:34
it by resisting it I’ve done what I can
120:39
to get rid of it and it hasn’t worked so
120:44
in each moment do what you can to
120:46
improve the situation by all means try
120:49
different things that are available but
120:51
once you’ve done what you can you’ve
120:52
tried what you can sit back and the
120:55
outcome not in your control and so once
120:58
you’ve done everything that you can
121:01
the continuous fantasizing about you
121:07
being able to do something to fix it or
121:08
that it’s not the way it is tends when
121:12
we present with it to be an extra load
121:14
of suffering on top of the initial
121:17
primary suffering of depression that’s
121:19
saying
121:22
hmm into the microphone if you don’t I
121:29
do think though like and correct me if
121:32
I’m wrong with us being do ership but
121:34
having reached not the same point but a
121:37
point where my life looked really really
121:40
really good on the outside but inside it
121:42
was not good for many years and then I
121:46
intentionally chose to leave Los Angeles
121:49
– cuz I I felt like I was powerless with
121:54
all of my doing to break the
121:57
conditioning that was controlling the
122:00
way that I was functioning and so I
122:03
consciously and intentionally removed
122:05
myself from everything that I knew from
122:08
everything that was comfortable because
122:11
I felt like it was the only way for life
122:13
to undo me as long as I remained
122:16
comfortable in an environment where I
122:18
could function no matter how strong my
122:21
intention no matter how strong my desire
122:23
no matter how strong my longing no
122:25
matter how painful my misery my grief my
122:28
despair my inability to function the way
122:31
I wanted to I couldn’t break it and the
122:34
great thing about disillusionment is
122:35
like no therapist you know no whatever I
122:40
won’t go into the list of all the things
122:41
that I did but like and so for me that
122:45
began a journey I had no wanderlust
122:47
I wouldn’t go anywhere I just wanted to
122:50
be undone basically so I feel like I
122:55
don’t know that longing that desire and
122:59
the admittance that I couldn’t do it did
123:02
create movement for me to go elsewhere
123:05
for the undoing to begin to happen I
123:08
just felt like so on one level there is
123:12
an acceptance but the acceptance in and
123:14
of itself can create momentum for an
123:17
undoing to take place like I don’t know
123:21
I just felt like yeah it’s it’s an
123:25
interest it’s useful addition because on
123:28
the one hand we say that happiness isn’t
123:30
to be found in circumstance so it’s not
123:32
about improving your circumstance or
123:34
which can sound like well in that case I
123:37
have to stay in the relationship I mean
123:38
on the job I mean and simply it’s about
123:42
my attitude to that relationship and
123:44
that job and in theory yes it’s always
123:48
attitudinal not circumstantial but as
123:50
you say that our attitude of do ership
123:53
can be a result of the circumstances
123:58
that we find ourself in and so and we
124:03
might have put ourself in certain
124:04
circumstances certain relationships for
124:07
example because we were functioning from
124:09
an attachment to outcomes previously and
124:12
if a relationship has been put in place
124:15
based on a false idea of who we are we
124:20
could find ourself in a relationship
124:22
that isn’t supporting an attitudinal
124:25
change and a recognition of this can
124:30
lead to a circumstantial change which so
124:33
when you say you consciously and
124:35
intentionally made a change I understand
124:38
the thought was I need to move and then
124:42
the thought might be oh I can’t move
124:43
it’s I don’t want to I’m too comfortable
124:46
here and then another thought said no
124:49
you have to move and then I’m gonna
124:53
follow this this feels true I know it’s
124:55
a resistance against my attachment to
124:59
outcomes that’s what’s happening is
125:01
there’s a resistance to the attachment
125:03
to outcomes and what maybe feels is
125:06
coming from a more understanding of
125:10
dynamics and eventually if you move and
125:15
you move out of a circumstance that is
125:17
actually subconsciously keeping in place
125:21
certain attitudes there can be a great
125:24
liberation from those moves
125:27
circumstantial moves and still it’s not
125:30
because of your circumstance the
125:33
happiness that you might feel after a
125:34
move like that is not because you’ve
125:36
changed circumstance it’s rather because
125:38
you’ve changed circumstance that was
125:40
affecting your attitude and so you’ve
125:43
changed circumstance and your attitude
125:44
has changed
125:46
couldn’t afford to go into certain
125:47
mental groups when I was in environments
125:49
that were completely foreign or
125:51
uncomfortable and even though that’s a
125:53
temporary fix it gave me enough time for
125:56
things to begin to rewire and that was
125:59
powerful to see and then I could go
126:00
right back into an old circumstance and
126:02
I would watch myself pivot back but I’ve
126:05
had a couple of years where I would
126:06
watch this dance happen and I slowly
126:09
began to feel
126:13
so what that means because you haven’t
126:15
been recorded so you’re saying that
126:17
you’ve found yourself moving backwards
126:21
and forwards from circumstances that
126:24
well maybe I’m not paraphrasing this but
126:27
you can find yourself in your situation
126:30
potentially moving towards work
126:33
scenarios that are still coming from
126:35
your old conditioning and so you find
126:39
yourself going into a situation that’s
126:41
being driven by your old attachment and
126:45
then you find yourself moving out of
126:47
that saying no I’m not going to carry on
126:48
this movement and you go back to a place
126:51
of what feels intuitively correct rather
126:55
than what feels conditionally correct
126:57
and the more that this movement back and
126:59
forth because you keep getting pulled
127:01
into your old habits for sometime and
127:04
the more that you find yourself breaking
127:07
away because you recognize a feeling
127:10
that exists when you engage in
127:13
circumstance from your old patterning
127:16
then eventually we find ourselves
127:18
gravitating towards the new more and
127:21
more than we did originally so
127:22
originally we kept getting dragged back
127:24
to what we were familiar with so it
127:27
could be something like um you know the
127:30
idea of working on us in a particular
127:33
industry is driven by the old
127:38
attachments to outcomes and at some
127:41
point we say I’m not gonna do this
127:43
anymore I’m not gonna follow these
127:44
prompts I have to follow some new
127:48
instruction inside which can be very
127:50
scary because the reason you’re
127:52
following those prompts could be because
127:54
your family have said that’s what’s
127:55
important your family have said this is
127:57
what I’ll support you in but I won’t
127:59
support you in something different and
128:00
so we’re attached to outcomes at some
128:03
point it’s like actually the feeling
128:06
inside is so uncomfortable by moving in
128:10
that tract in that groove I’m willing to
128:13
risk anything I’m willing to risk losing
128:17
my family and friends those are
128:19
secondary consequences too
128:24
this this uncomfortableness inside so
128:29
sometimes it needs to get really
128:31
uncomfortable in order for a shift to
128:35
happen yeah okay well um I’m here again
128:47
tomorrow thank you

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